Supercharger Heaven

[Hans3T]

:agree:

 

[5gn-h3t]

It's not finished yet, but it did make 2 laps around the house. Lol. It isn't tuned and the coolant system for the intercooler isn't plumbed. But it runs and is noticeably faster and I've only had it up to about 2,000 rpms. Also, the S/C is extremely quiet.

 

[5gn-h3t]

 

[5gn-h3t]

I was able to find a replacement for the supercharger's heat exchanger. I just had to drill 3 holes in it for the mounting brackets.

 

[06 H3]

Can't wait to see the finished product!

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[Hans3T]

I hate to sound like an echo, but :agree: I definitely think some videos will be in order.

:wink:

 

[5gn-h3t]

Okay, okay! I'll get vids and more pics when I can. I'm in my last week of school before summer break and things are hectic. I won't be working on the T much until next week. And there's always another part or two that I have to mail order. I've been very meticulous with the installation and I'm really trying to pay as much attention to detail as possible. I've been using OEM connectors and pins instead of cheap butt splices. I'm going to have to order more connector pins and some other odds and ends. Every mail order is like a week delay. And it seems like every step of the install requires another mail order.

This definitely isn't a project for everyone. It has been a bigger project than I expected. Hopefully it pays off in the end.

 

[Hans3T]

:corn: Good luck!!

 

[skippy]

heaps cheaper than some others out there looking forward to seeing it

 

[MaxPF]

Do not..repeat...DO NOT turbocharge under any circumstances. Turbocharging an I5 = disaster and I and others have the repair bills to prove it. Wiser heads than mine cautioned but the mechanic advising me at the time said it would all be good...WRONG..WRONG..WRONG. The I5 didn't like the instant power of the turbo and a piston ended up with a hole in the top of it.

Hole in piston = detonation or sustained lean condition. I'm guessing you didn't run a 3 bar map sensor and modified tune? I ran a Garrett TO4 on a 3.8L in a Camaro for over a year with zero issues. Never had an engine problem, but I went through two 4L60E's in short order

Centrifugal superchargers can still burn down an engine from leaning out, but they tend to be more modest in their boost and make most of their boost at higher RPM where detonation is a bit less likely, although it can still happen. Positive displacement chargers (like the one 5gn is using) can make most of their rated boost at lower RPMs, so detonation needs to be carefully avoided. I-5's have high compression, which doesn't help matters. Hopefully some careful tuning is being done, and the injectors are large enough to prevent high RPM leanout.

 

[5gn-h3t]

MaxPF - Thank you for the cautions and insight. I'm fully aware that I could easily melt down the I-5. I'm sure I will spend more time on the laptop than I did spinning a wrench. And I spent a lot of time spinning a wrench!

Some of the install was second nature, other parts I'm learning as I go.

 

[backcountryislife]

What kind of mapping do you deal with adding boost to one of these?

Stand alone, reprogramming ecu, piggyback box? Does the kit mfg give you a solid baseline & you tune from there off A/F #'s or do you just slap it in & go?

When someone tells me that "boost" of any form destroyed their engine, I'd tend to disagree... fuel management, too low grade of fuel, or incorrect setup for that motor is what took out a motor.

I'd love to add boost to my motor, especially at my altitude I'm a prim candidate for it, just need to figure out whether it makes sense to do $$ wise.

I run a 400 lb machine that makes about 50 horse more than my truck does at my house... I feel like with proper management the I-5 should do relatively well.

We're pulling 600hp from 1.1L 4 strokes... I'd think we could do pretty well with a 3.7


Does the motor not have any kind of det sensors to avoid the issues others have seen?

Sorry for any ignorance, I could tell volumes about boosted sleds, but don't ever bother modding my vehicles... can't jump them (much), why bother modding them? :giggle:

 

[GoBlueHummer]

Looks awesome 5gn-h3t. I had a question for you, PM sent.

 

[MaxPF]

Does the motor not have any kind of det sensors to avoid the issues others have seen?

Yes, but the PCM cannot pull an infinite amount of timing. The engineers program it to pull timing if detonation occurs, but they know that in stock normally aspirated form only so much timing needs to be pulled for any condition. That amount may not be enough for a boosted engine, and you can get a chronic low-level detonation that constantly hammers at the piston under heavy load. It may not even be audible to the driver, but it is slowly doing damage.

 

[backcountryislife]

Yes, but the PCM cannot pull an infinite amount of timing. The engineers program it to pull timing if detonation occurs, but they know that in stock normally aspirated form only so much timing needs to be pulled for any condition. That amount may not be enough for a boosted engine, and you can get a chronic low-level detonation that constantly hammers at the piston under heavy load. It may not even be audible to the driver, but it is slowly doing damage.

If that was the situation though, how do you do fuel mgmt? Are you not able to run any piggyback that can pull timing? I would think that would be step #1 in bosted application at low altitude. If you've got high-ish compression, timing has to drop, no?

We run fuel boxes that run piggyback to the ECU, then run modules that take timing out progressively, starting at 0 on the bottom, then ramping to anywhere from -1 to -3 deg depending on setup. That saves us on fuel significantly.

If you can't pull timing enough though, wouldn't your kit mfg give you a baseline on what you DO need to run for fuel?

I get you on the low level det... we run such short bursts, that det, if it's not hitting the sensor won't kill us, but I can see where on a truck it would be a different story.

5gn, will this change what fuel you need to run on your truck?

 

[MaxPF]

I can't answer your question without specifically knowing what the piggyback box interfaces with and does. However, to illustrate what I am talking about, here is a screenshot from EFI Live:

This table is from an LQ4 6.0L tune, and is only one of several tables dealing with knock retard, but you get the idea. In this particular table, only 8 degrees of timing can be pulled for knock suppression. There are other tables that control base timing for given operating conditions, and by fooling the inputs to the ECM (mainly MAP sensor inputs) you can effectively get less overall timing, but there are limits to how much timing variance you can get this way without actually altering the tables in the ECM using a tool like EFI Live. With a 3 bar MAP sensor, proper size injectors, and proper ECM/PCM tuning you can safely boost the engine (to a point - the compression is still high for boosting) without any add-on boxes and such. GM did and does it from the factory with vehicles like the Buick Grand National and the latest ZR1 Corvette, and engines like the supercharged 3800 V-6 used in various cars in the 90's and 2000's.

Anyway, I think we have hijacked 5gn's thread enough. As you were

 

[hodges81]

Does anybody sell supercharges anymore?... I'm really in the market for one and need to know if I'm going to have a custom one put in.

 

[Mb30sdl]

Practical questions:

Will it be smogable?

What psi boost is?

 

[hodges81]

Practical questions:

Will it be smogable?

What psi boost is?

I dont know I'm used to turbos and read that they're not recommended for our vehicles...

 

[Mb30sdl]

But you can use it with low boost ~6psi.

 

[MaxPF]

I dont know I'm used to turbos and read that they're not recommended for our vehicles...

I don't see why not. Boost is boost.

 

[Sennin]

I don't see why not. Boost is boost.

My understanding is that a SC gives you the sensation of a bigger engine (boost is linear) where turbo tends to be peaky, unless you go variable vane turbo

 

[amrg]

Yes a turbo kicks in at a certain rpm, thats because it gets powered from the exhaust pushing on it. The sc takes power directly from the engine via belts, so its always on.

 

[atvspeed4]

It all comes down to sizing a turbo for your needs based on the turbo map. It's not simple. You can get a turbo to start building boost from idle if you want but at the expense of high rpm power. Need to figure out your goals before deciding on what characteristics you need in selecting your turbo.

 

[Sennin]

It all comes down to sizing a turbo for your needs based on the turbo map. It's not simple. You can get a turbo to start building boost from idle if you want but at the expense of high rpm power. Need to figure out your goals before deciding on what characteristics you need in selecting your turbo.

Jip. And therefore a sc is a bit easier I would think

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