Need help, fixed shift fork. Only moves in 4wd

[rsm688]

Okay guys well after a vehicle that would not move at all (felt like it was in neutral) and had no park. I pulled the t-case, swapped the broken plastic shift fork out, put it all back together. Now the vehicle will not move at all in normal mode, I do have park now. When I am in 4Hi/4Lo it drives around fine. I noticed when I was in neutral and shifted it back to normal that the front driveshaft was spinning like crazy just in Neutral. The rear shaft was not moving at all. Also, I noticed when I had the shafts off I could turn the front diff flange by hand. I'm guessing something is toast in my front end, I'm hoping it's not the front differential.....I want to bash my head into a wall right now


Both my axle shafts appear fine from the outside, I tried to turn them both by hand and they did not budge.


Any ideas?

Oh yeah it's an 06 H3 Adventure


Thanks,
Spencer

 

[alrock]

Sounds like front diff is toast. The fact that front propshaft is spinning shows that the transfer case is working properly. Power always goes to the free wheels and with no resistance from the front diff then power goes there. When you lock the transfer case you are successfully sending power to the rear wheels-100% of it.

 

[rsm688]

I lied, apparently I am blind. This looks broken to me, do ya'll agree?





I've got 96k miles on my H3 and it came with worn out 35s on it so doesn't suprise me, I also noticed a loud squeeking when I was driving that I thought was suspension but could have been the broken shaft rubbing maybe.


I've got an entire new front suspension (control arms, ball joints, bushings, sway bar links, shocks) that will be going in next weekend probably. Looks like I will be replacing an axle shaft as well.

Should I go ahead and replace the other side or just leave it?


Thanks,
Spencer

 

[rsm688]

I drained the front diff, the fluid was black and there was maybe 1/4" height of small metal shavings on the magnet, seems about right for 96k miles and diff fluid that has probably never been changed

 

[rsm688]

What's the best source for replacement shafts?

Anyone ever use Detroit axle shafts? They sell a pair of both left and right shafts for $105 shipped with a lifteime warranty, they also sell a pair of rebuilt factory half shafts for $190 shipped

 

[alrock]

Doubt it's that axle that you have pictured. If so, the half in the diff would be spinning freely (based on your propshaft spinning freely) and the half in the wheel would be stuck in position - and the boot would be ripped by now. As for axles (or any part) a lifetime warranty isn't worth a lot when you it breaks on you as you're still stuck with a broken truck, though it might mean they believe in their product. I don't know anything about that brand. Have not seen good results with EMPI and have decent results with A1 Cardone. Best bet seems to be OEM but that's pricey.

 

[rsm688]

alrock, does that shaft not look off to you? The angle seems off compared to the other side. It looks like the shaft is too low where it reaches the boot, on the other side its centered and the boot is not pushed down that far

I was thinking maybe it is either that CV joint or the intermediate shaft in the tube since it would be trying to send power to that shaft (since no resistance since it is broken) and thus be causing my issues. The outer piece definitely seems stuck in position as I can not move it and I noticed almost a whining sound when it was spinning the front. It didn't seem like there was near enough metal in the diff fluid for it to be toast, just small shavings typical of wear. There were not any large chunks or teeth.

I was thinking it probably broke with the previous owner when the shift fork went out and it would sometime catch in gear when engaged and bind some (as he described it). Who knows though, I am going to pull the diff cover tomorrow and inspect all the internals


Thanks,
Spencer

 

[Reloader]

Jack up both front wheels at the same time. Have the transfer case in high loc and transmission in park. turn a front wheel by hand one way and the other side should turn the other way at the same time. You should not be able to turn the front propellor shaft. If you have a front e-locker have it off. This means the ring and pinion will be stationary and the spyder and end gears will be turning inside the carrier. It should turn smoothly with some gear clatter noise in the diff from the spyder gears . If not, problem could be inside carrier, a cv axle, or the intermediate shaft is snapped in two. Not uncommon. The crap on the magnet could be some of the debri from a broken intershaft. Not that hard to repair. Pull left cv axle shaft, unbolt left side diff support and unbolt inter shaft outer tube from diff. I would drop the whole diff assembly and fix on the bench. Be sure to flush the diff housing very well and inspect.
A new shaft and two new axle seals . some new lube and your good to go. Use RTV for diff cover gasket. No need to waste money on one of those pricey cover gaskets. Rock Auto has new A-one Cardont select cv axles for $40 ea. I run genuine GM axles as I have an Alpha but the Cardont axles should be fine with the I-5. Rock does list an AC Delco axle for $80 but its not the the same as the GM ones witch are $250ish from Rock. Still a good price. Inter shaft will be a GM only part I believe. Be sure to inspect diff innards first . Like Alrock said if cv axle was broken boot would be all twisted up.

 

[rsm688]

Jack up both front wheels at the same time. Have the transfer case in high loc and transmission in park. turn a front wheel by hand one way and the other side should turn the other way at the same time. You should not be able to turn the front propellor shaft. If you have a front e-locker have it off. This means the ring and pinion will be stationary and the spyder and end gears will be turning inside the carrier. It should turn smoothly with some gear clatter noise in the diff from the spyder gears . If not, problem could be inside carrier, a cv axle, or the intermediate shaft is snapped in two. Not uncommon. The crap on the magnet could be some of the debri from a broken intershaft. Not that hard to repair. Pull left cv axle shaft, unbolt left side diff support and unbolt inter shaft outer tube from diff. I would drop the whole diff assembly and fix on the bench. Be sure to flush the diff housing very well and inspect.
A new shaft and two new axle seals . some new lube and your good to go. Use RTV for diff cover gasket. No need to waste money on one of those pricey cover gaskets. Rock Auto has new A-one Cardont select cv axles for $40 ea. I run genuine GM axles as I have an Alpha but the Cardont axles should be fine with the I-5. Rock does list an AC Delco axle for $80 but its not the the same as the GM ones witch are $250ish from Rock. Still a good price. Inter shaft will be a GM only part I believe. Be sure to inspect diff innards first . Like Alrock said if cv axle was broken boot would be all twisted up.

Thank Reloader, I am going to raise the front and test as you mentioned and possibly pull the diff cover and inspect this afteroon and see if I can locate the problem.

 

[4speedfunk]

Blown Front diff! ...no teeth left on the pinion. Get out the VISA card.

Half-shafts look fine to me.

 

[rsm688]

4speedfunk, do you mean the ring and pinion pinion? As in I would just need a new gear set installed?

 

[4speedfunk]

Most likely. Depending on how far you have driven while munching parts...you may need new bearings. That's one bad thing about a full-time 4x4....you can't shut off the front axle when things go south. So what happens is you grind big chunks into dust and it gets circulated throughout the entire differential. There are 2 or 3 things that tend to fail on the front diff...but all of them release chunks into the moving parts. And that's what does the real damage.

The first is a simple pinion bearing failure. This comes on slowly and the lash eventually gets large enough that it quickly grinds the teeth away. It usually happens on long distance highway trips. This is a "wear" type of failure...usually due to low or dirty fluid.

The second is a catastrophic explosion of the diff. This occurs most often when off-roading and its pretty obvious when it happens. Case flex. Once it happens you contaminate the fluid with shrapnel and it gets ground up...ruining many other components on the drive home.

The third is a broken stub shaft on the drivers-side. This also occurs when off-roading and its not as obvious as the exploding failure but, it will still leave you stranded. In most cases, if you stop driving when it happens...you can simply replace the stub shaft with a good one, without any other repairs. However...if you drive it around with a broken stub shaft, you will also circulate the chunks throughout the diff and they will eventually destroy the ring & pinion.

Whatever the case (no-pun)...all three are very expensive repairs. Many of us have been there. If you caught things early enough...you might be able to get away with a new gear set and fluid. Make sure you flush the entire assembly with solvent and check the bearings for wear. Given the relatively low cost of bearings ($150)...I would replace them. The real expense is the labor. Its an all-day job and it requires some know-how and special tools. Plan for $400 to $1500 depending on the damage.

 

[amrg]

Make sure you flush the entire assembly with solvent and check the bearings for wear.

Is their a specific solvent used to clean the H3 diffs when changing the oil? Last time when I serviced my H3 diffs the dealer told me they had no special chemicals to clean the insides and I ended up just removing the old oil, cleaning as much as possible and putting new oil back in. Now Im about to repeat that service on my other vehicle and thought Id ask!

 

[08H3]

Even though I agree that it sounds like the diff, I am at a loss how you could drive around for any length of time with metal eating giant chunks of metal and not have noticed it.

 

[rsm688]

Thanks 4speed funk, I notcied when I drained it the fluid was black and there was not but maybe a quart in it. I'm guessing number one, pinion bearing failure

Even though I agree that it sounds like the diff, I am at a loss how you could drive around for any length of time with metal eating giant chunks of metal and not have noticed it.

I picked up this H3 non-running as the shift fork had gone out in the transfer case, so it's only been driven maybe 400 yards since I got it. The front diff was making no apparent noise other than a whine when it was in neutral and the front shaft was spinning

 

[Reloader]

So, whats the verdict? If front diff is trashed maybe your best coarse might be a replacement road proven (used) unit. Just be sure to open it up and look it over good. Maybe score one from a wrecked mall cruiser thats never seen a dirt road. All years should fit except ones from Alphas assuming yours is an I5.

 

[Reloader]

Is their a specific solvent used to clean the H3 diffs when changing the oil? Last time when I serviced my H3 diffs the dealer told me they had no special chemicals to clean the insides and I ended up just removing the old oil, cleaning as much as possible and putting new oil back in. Now Im about to repeat that service on my other vehicle and thought Id ask!

I use plain old aerosol brake cleaner. Any brand will do. Remove cover and flush away. Use at least 2 cans per diff. If oil drained out is all metaled up then there is a problem that needs addressing. The stuff dries immediately so you can refill right away. check all ring, pinion. and spyder gear teeth.
If not removing cover you can still flush through the fill hole and it will flush out the drain hole. We are lucky with our H3s, lots of diffs out there dont have a drain plug and you have to remove the cover to drain and refill. Just dont loose the plastic tube in the diff. Rotate the carrier to get all around it clean.
Another thing to check if cover is removed is the carrier end play. There should be no side to side movement. If so the carrier barrens be junk. Note- end play is not the same as backlash. Backlash is the measurement of clearance between the ring gear and pinion gear.
Any questions just ask.

 

[rsm688]

Good guess guys, the pinion is toast. Got the cover off and its full of shrapnel. The whole end of the pinion is gone, everything else looks good. Local shop wants $300 to install a ring and pinion, plus $200 for parts and I figure with it being low and with black fluid and shrapnel the bearings will probably crap out eventually.

I found a forum member with a whole front axle that he swapped out for $300. From his '06 with 180k miles. "It was super smooth and and the fluid was nice and clear when I removed it. 4.56 gears. It was my daily driver and had zero issues. Only removed to do an axle swap."

I am thinking of going this route, I know it's high miles but from what I've seen axles can last a lifetime if maintained properly. I figure I am looking at probably $800-1100 to rebuild mine completely and I can't seem to find any other ones for sale anywhere except one from an 08 with 50k miles for $760 shipped on eBay and an 09 one with 128k miles for $750 shipped


Any thoughts or suggestions on my best course of action?


Thanks,
Spencer

 

[4speedfunk]

Absolutely swap the entire assembly. You can do it in about two hours. Once you get the "stuff" out of the way...you simply pull three bolts and the entire thing drops out onto the floor. Kick it aside...bolt the new one in...fill it with fluid...put it all back together.

Repeat in 40K miles.

 

[rsm688]

Thanks again 4speedfunk, yeah I am going to be swapping out the entire front suspension and diff crossmember (scorpworks upgrade) anyways so I am going to have most all the front end off so it shouldn't be too much more.

Should I replace the diff mounts with the bushings while I have it off? The one on the side of the carrier and one at the end of the axle tube? Or are they not known for wearing out

 

[alrock]

Replace them if they are torn or broken, otherwise you can leave them alone.

 

[4speedfunk]

I would absolutely replace the outboard diff bushings. Half the problems with the front axle are due to it flopping around too much. Obviously the center bushing (at the crossmember) takes a pounding every time you get on or off the throttle. Its pretty clear that this bushing is a common problem, and there are several fixes available. But, I think the outboard bushings are equally inadequate and every bit as important as the crossmember bushing. But, because they don't physically come apart (like the crossmember bushing does)...they tend to get over-looked. You should see those outboard bushings deflect when a spinning 35" tire catches on something! We're talking big time movement (like close to an inch)...no wonder the case flexes! I won't say outboard bushings are fix-all cure for the AAM-7 but, they certainly play a big part in why they the diff pulls itself apart. Anything you can do to stiffen things up is worth it...especially since you'll already have it apart.

Having worked-on many H3s for over five years now...I'm starting to see "trends" in what parts wear-out and why. Dollar for dollar...the best mods you can do is to replace the steering rack bushings, and the front diff bushings with something more substantial. The soft rubber versions that come from the factory may help to isolate road-noise for that "Cadillac ride" but, they are not worthy of off-road use...even when new!...and even with stock tires! Then you install larger tires with aggressive tread...put the bushings through thousands of compression and tension cycles...and they are total junk at less than 20K miles. The front end bushings are the achilles tendon of the H3. Once they go soft (about a month after you drive it off the lot)...its only a matter of time before you start having clunks, bangs, and sometimes...catastrophic explosions coming from the front end.

Its impossible to prove but, a couple hundred bucks for these two upgrades may save you thousands in the long run.

 

[rsm688]

Thanks 4 Speedfunnk, I've got the new Scorpworks front diff bushing crossmember and ordering the steering rack upgrade. What would you suggest for a better bushing to replace the other 2 diff bushings with instead of using OEM ones?

 

[4speedfunk]

Here you go...
http://www.outfitterdesign.com/do-it-yourself-front-differential-bushing-kit.html

 

[Zach]

Side note here. For those of you who have been wanting to buy 4.1 tcase. You should have done it last month. Dealer cost jumped $400 this month. Now the same price as base tcase