Another trans cooling thread...

[06 H3]

After researching this topic and realizing there was so much info and for better or worse there is so much varying info I feel like I know less then I did before I started...Well I am much more confused, thats for sure. Yesterday on the LCC I took it out of 4 lo on after the rocky section, we are on a dirt road with some hills so the trans is constantly shifting and next thing I know my trans temp is at 244.:gaah:

I mentioned something about the scangauge yesterday, the nicest thing about having one is that you can watch your trans temp and the worst thing about having one is you can watch your trans temp. I feel like I cant be alone here. I know these motors run hot and seeing the trans cooler is in the radiator it just jumps the heat up. So I have done some research on this topic, on trans coolers in general, not H3 specific. So from what I have read,

The pros of a external cooler are
-Runs cooler
-dont run the risk of leaking your trans fluid into your engine coolant

The pros of the stock internal cooler
-Warms up the temp quickly
-It was done in the factory, there must be a reason right?

Cons of external cooler
-temps too cold in the winter?

Cons of internal cooler
-can leak and leave a hefty motor and trans repair bill.

I dont have the money for a Ron Davis radiator, and that would probably help decrease the chance of leaking the trans fluid and engine coolant and having the problem cotilio recently had and probably not help the cooling too much, maybe a little. Anyone have one to chime in. I want to take care of these heat issues before 110 degree weather. So do I run a external cooler with the internal cooler? Almost like It goes from the trans to the external cooler to the internal stock cooler back to the trans? Or just the external and close off the internal one. I also dont wanna run too cool in the winters, We get 115 in the summer but we will hit 25-30 in the winter and if I go up to the mountains it gets colder then that.

Open to advice and ideas.

 

[poncho1965]

I was listening to your exchange on the cb.....Curious what scan gauge you run because I would like to watch my trans temp also since I run the full skid....watching engine temp alone with the gauge in the dash I find I run cooler in 4-Low when climbing. That's my stopgap measure until I install an external tranny cooler. Craig also mentioned going to manual trans as an option


Mike

 

[06 H3]

scan gauge ii, I got mine much cheaper from a friend. It was 90 bucks as he has a wholesale account with them since hes in the car industry. If you want one I can check if he still has that account, he may or may not since he switched jobs.

 

[Kyle]

im with chris on this one, i want to do an external cooler too. chris did you see the thread about the B&M Trans cooler install? i think thats the best bet!

 

[MaxPF]

After researching this topic and realizing there was so much info and for better or worse there is so much varying info I feel like I know less then I did before I started...Well I am much more confused, thats for sure. Yesterday on the LCC I took it out of 4 lo on after the rocky section, we are on a dirt road with some hills so the trans is constantly shifting and next thing I know my trans temp is at 244.:gaah:

I mentioned something about the scangauge yesterday, the nicest thing about having one is that you can watch your trans temp and the worst thing about having one is you can watch your trans temp. I feel like I cant be alone here. I know these motors run hot and seeing the trans cooler is in the radiator it just jumps the heat up.

A hot running engine is part of the problem. The other is that the in-rad cooler is small.

So I have done some research on this topic, on trans coolers in general, not H3 specific. So from what I have read,

The pros of a external cooler are
-Runs cooler
-dont run the risk of leaking your trans fluid into your engine coolant

It only runs cooler if it's large/efficient enough

The pros of the stock internal cooler
-Warms up the temp quickly
-It was done in the factory, there must be a reason right?

Cost is the main reason. Second reason is rapid fluid warmup and fluid temp stability. Although, as you saw, the fluid temp is not stable if you run for prolonged periods with the converter clutch unlocked.

Cons of external cooler
-temps too cold in the winter?

If you keep the in-rad cooler in the circuit or put a temp-controlled bypass valve in the plumbing this isn't a problem.

Cons of internal cooler
-can leak and leave a hefty motor and trans repair bill.

This can be prevented by a simple maintenance procedure: replace the radiator BEFORE it fails. I know many people have a hard time spending money to replace a part before it has failed, but the factory H3 radiator is well known to exhibit this failure. Usually, it happens after x number of miles. Find out what "x" is, and before you reach that point, replace the rad as a preventative measure. If you are past the typical failure mileage, replace it now.

I know Ron Davis radiators are the in-thing, but I personally don't like them after seeing two fail after only a couple years of service, and the reputation they have for failure among my racer friends. The OE radiators are much cheaper (if bought from a radiator shop - avoid the dealer markup on these things!!!) and last for a reasonable and predictable length of time.

I dont have the money for a Ron Davis radiator, and that would probably help decrease the chance of leaking the trans fluid and engine coolant and having the problem cotilio recently had and probably not help the cooling too much, maybe a little. Anyone have one to chime in. I want to take care of these heat issues before 110 degree weather. So do I run a external cooler with the internal cooler? Almost like It goes from the trans to the external cooler to the internal stock cooler back to the trans? Or just the external and close off the internal one. I also dont wanna run too cool in the winters, We get 115 in the summer but we will hit 25-30 in the winter and if I go up to the mountains it gets colder then that.

Open to advice and ideas.

My opinion is to either A) replace the radiator, add an external cooler, and plumb the external cooler and in-rad cooler in series, or B) keep the stock radiator, add an external cooler with a thermostatic bypass, and delete the in-rad cooler from the loop.

In either case, fit the biggest cooler you can. The Long coolers (stacked plate design - B&M's are just rebranded Long coolers) are rugged but not very efficient. The plate-and-fin types are FAR more efficient - that is, a smaller size plate-and-fin cooler will actually cool more than a larger size stacked plate cooler. Tube-and-fin coolers suck balls - don't waste your money on one.

If you want the absolute best, go to Setrab and get one of their coolers. They also sell the thermostatic bypass valves and other accessories (i.e. fittings, which you will need since the coolers don't come with any). Setrabs are OE on lots of expensive vehicles, and I have yet to hear anyone say they're not worth the money.

If you're a tightwad, your best bang for the buck is a plate-and-fin cooler from CXRacing. They are clones of the Setrab oil coolers, probably made in China (where else?). Go here and browse the various sizes. There are 3 pages worth, so make sure to hit the "Next" button at the bottom of the page to see more. Most have male AN fittings, while some have pipe fittings. Either are easy to adapt up to, although I prefer the ones with AN fittings due to their Setrab-like design. I don't know if they will last as long as the Setrabs, but Todd has one and it hasn't leaked... yet.

 

[Mr_Rich]

I've checked out the Setrab coolers on their website and I'm really impressed with the product. I'm just finishing up the BTO trans install on my K1500 and I'll need to set up the trans cooler in front of the radiator rather than keep it in-tank. I try to keep a factory look as much as possible with my mods.

 

[06 H3]

maxPF, adding in a thermostatic bypass will get rid of the concern of having a trans being too cold?

I was also thinking about adding this too. It is a bit deeper so it will hold more fluid and was already confirmed that it will work as the broken had one for his beefed up 4l60e. I know it works with the stock shaft, hope it works with my double cardan one too...

It also has a drain plug which the OEM one does not.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-14204/overview/

 

[MaxPF]

maxPF, adding in a thermostatic bypass will get rid of the concern of having a trans being too cold?

Yes. It bypasses the fluid rather than allowing it to flow through the cooler, until a set temp point is reached, at which point it diverts the flow through the cooler. Keep in mind, however, that the trans will warm up more slowly compared to a setup using the in-tank cooler since it doesn't have warm coolant (which heats up much faster than trans fluid) to bring it to operating temps.

If you have your PCM or TCM reprogrammed, you can have the converter lock tables altered to prevent converter lockup until a higher temp (say, 100°F) is reached. This will aid in trans fluid warmup since mostl heating of the fluid is done by the converter stirring the oil.

I was also thinking about adding this too. It is a bit deeper so it will hold more fluid and was already confirmed that it will work as the broken had one for his beefed up 4l60e. I know it works with the stock shaft, hope it works with my double cardan one too...

It also has a drain plug which the OEM one does not.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-14204/overview/

Pans that add fluid capacity do not keep the trans cooler. They merely slow the rate that they heat up. This can be good or bad. For my money, I see no added benefit. Spending the money on a decent cooler setup will actually keep your fluid from getting too hot, rather than simply delaying the inevitable. Another issue with a deep pan is that they will probably interfere with your UCP. You can modify the UCP of course, but you lose ground clearance. To me, the only real advantage of a larger pan is that the extra fluid will allow you to lengthen drain intervals by a proportional amount.

I will also mention again that Castrol Transynd or Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF (NOT Mobil 1) are the best fluids you can use, ESPECIALLY if the trans runs hot. I know this advice will be ignored since it violates the owners manual, but I figure I will keep throwing it out there.

 

[06 H3]

Thanks for all the good info, I will then go ahead and skip the pan, I may look into doing my own drain plug for the stock pan though, its a PITA without one. When I let the pan down I get about 80% on me, 15% on the floor and the last 5% where I wanted all of it to go, the catch pan.

Any thermostatic bypasses you recommend? Im guessing setrab, right? I think I will bypass the in line cooler all together. The risk of potentially destroying my motor and trans isnt worth the warming up a few minutes quicker. If I throw the bypass in and have it set for 150-160 I think it should still warm up pretty quickly.

Are there any long term effects to a trans running cold fluid? Even if I am driving anywhere between -10 to 10 degrees I think the trans should be able to hit 160 within 10 miles of driving.

 

[Kelly@PCMofNC]

If someone was interested in leaving their H3 with us for a few days, we'll be glad to design a trans cooler kit for them. We have very popular ones for the TBSS/Camaros/etc. Our kits have brackets, lines, all the fittings, hardware, etc so it takes all the guess work out of it.

 

[MaxPF]

Thanks for all the good info, I will then go ahead and skip the pan, I may look into doing my own drain plug for the stock pan though, its a PITA without one. When I let the pan down I get about 80% on me, 15% on the floor and the last 5% where I wanted all of it to go, the catch pan.

Any thermostatic bypasses you recommend? Im guessing setrab, right? I think I will bypass the in line cooler all together. The risk of potentially destroying my motor and trans isnt worth the warming up a few minutes quicker. If I throw the bypass in and have it set for 150-160 I think it should still warm up pretty quickly.

The Setrab one is the only one I'm aware of, actually. I'm sure there are others, I just never bothered to look.

Are there any long term effects to a trans running cold fluid? Even if I am driving anywhere between -10 to 10 degrees I think the trans should be able to hit 160 within 10 miles of driving.

Other than collecting condensation, I know of no issues. Shift quality will be different, although most people don't notice the difference in shifting between a cold and a warm trans. Whether that causes any long term wear, I do not know.

I wouldn't count on it warming up within 10 miles at that ambient temp, unless the converter remains unlocked the entire time.

 

[alrock]

Someone needs to take their H3 to PCMofNC!!!

 

[Tdavis]

After reading this thread, I thought I would take a look at my 2008 Alpha radiator and trans. cooler. No lines into the radiator and an external cooler. Was this standard or an add on from the previous owner?? Time for more research..... Learn something new every day.

 

[Kyle]

Someone needs to take their H3 to PCMofNC!!!

Ill do it, road trip anyone? Lol


Sent from the top of a mountain in my h3

 

[MaxPF]

Someone needs to take their H3 to PCMofNC!!!

Why don't we use yours a a guinea pig for a kit :deal:

 

[MTUH3]

I threw a external trans cooler on my H3 a couple years ago. So far things are behaving very well and has worked great in the MI winters. First year I put it on we hit -22 in Grayling a couple nights and besides the battery taking a crap, truck drove great. May be I am lazy, but I don't think the bypass is needed. I will concede that I may be doing more long term harm, but so far so good.

 

[06 H3]

After reading this thread, I thought I would take a look at my 2008 Alpha radiator and trans. cooler. No lines into the radiator and an external cooler. Was this standard or an add on from the previous owner?? Time for more research..... Learn something new every day.

Probably a previous owner. I don't think alphas were different in cooling

 

[MaxPF]

I think that was a SA Alpha that had the external cooler on it.

 

[Kyle]

Okay, so im going to attempt doing the external trans cooler maybe this weekend or early next week, im going to use the B&M cooler that has 13,000 btu cooling capacity

 

[poncho1965]

Interested in going through with the trans cooler soon also. Installed a Scangauge II today and Chris (06 H3) provided the code to read transmission temps. Curious to see what temps I get with the full skid plate installed.


Mike

 

[bebe]

I have had no problems with my Ron Davis, and neither have 10's of thousands of others. I appreciate the experiences of some people, but we all know there are many factors involved in the success of an all aluminum rad, application, maintenance, and set up to name a few.

Anyhoo...first thing you should check is your fan clutch...you should be hearing a Roar from the engine when it starts getting to 211* or so - if not...start there.

If you can, when it gets that hot, turn it off and open your hood. With the engine off - can you easily turn the fan? If yes, it's a bad fan clutch, if not it's something else. When was the last time the rad was flushed and the fins cleaned?

I love the amount of knowledge here on this board and I am by no means an expert - but lets start with the simple stuff first...and move on from there.

 

[speedy]

Start with some maintenance first.
Here's excellent do it your self video.

[video=youtube;I-thGyh_W6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-thGyh_W6c[/video]

 

[06 H3]

The coolant was flushed 9k miles ago. Very recent...I will check the fan clutch. That may be it, I don't remember the roaring sound on LCC.

Tomorrow we are supposed to be in the high 90s so I will get the motor hot and check back.

 

[Kyle]

The coolant was flushed 9k miles ago. Very recent...I will check the fan clutch. That may be it, I don't remember the roaring sound on LCC.

Tomorrow we are supposed to be in the high 90s so I will get the motor hot and check back.

also check to see how much movement in and out the fan has!

 

[poncho1965]

I drove around today for 1.5 hours and saw a high temp of 205. Ambient temp is 95.


Mike