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SAS Teaser photos...

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I machined the stock Dana 6-lug hubs to accept tone rings (on the backside). Then I made some mounts for the sensors and welded them to some custom caliper brackets. The calipers, rotors, and ABS sensors are stock H3.

BTW...the jury is still out on whether these will work. I won't know until I take it for a spin.
 

silvrzuki77

Well-Known Member
Messages
556
Location
Vegas
Do you know off hand how many teeth are on the h3 tone ring? Im really interested to see if it works, I hope it does it will be nice setup you have. Running around with my kids in the truck nice to keep the safety asspect of it.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I personally could live without the ABS but, the truck would be completely paralyzed with the the sensors. Not only do the rings/sensors feed signal to the ABS but, they also work in conjunction with the Traction Control and Vehicle Stabilization Systems. Basically...alot of the the things I like about the H3 would be voided if you got rid of the sensors. Frankly...I don't think the H3 would be such a performer without the TCS. Its the one thing that makes it capable of hanging with Jeeps on the trails. Without the TCS and computerized T-case...you might as well sell it and buy a JK like everybody else.

The rings I'm using are 55-tooth units from 92-96 GM 2500 trucks. They are available everywhere (ebay, Amazon, etc.), and with some machining...they can be installed on the backside of 6-lug Dana 44 hubs. The stock H3 uses a much smaller ring (inside the unit bearings) but it is still 55-teeth. I have the sensor gap set at 1mm which mimics the stock gap. I've tried to "fake-out" the computer as best as I could.

I used the same approach with the brake system...copying the stock H3 layout and adapting everything to the Dana axle. I couldn't bear to put old 70's era clunker brakes on my 2008 rig. All of the brake parts you see here (calipers, pads, rotors) are stock late model H3 parts stuck on a 1973 axle. Hopefully the "brain" will never know the difference...

View attachment 4133View attachment 4134View attachment 4135View attachment 4136
 
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silvrzuki77

Well-Known Member
Messages
556
Location
Vegas
Looks good thanks for the info on the gap and tooth count. I agree with all the systems and keeping them. Best of luck and cant wait to see out come!!
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I'm quite far away from a test drive. I have just finished re-working the track bar and installing the Ford steering box. I still have all of this to do:

Pitman arm (trying to find a Ford arm that will accept a GM 1-ton TRE)
Brake lines
Shocks
Shock mounts
Bump stops
Steering links
Sway bars
Lock-outs (or drive flanges)
Driveshaft mods
Computer-tune
Brake pads (EBC greenies)

Whew. I'm sure I forgot some stuff...but I'm far from driving it.

As I'm sure Recon can tell you...this ain't something you're gonna do in a weekend.
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
I'm quite far away from a test drive. I have just finished re-working the track bar and installing the Ford steering box. I still have all of this to do:

Pitman arm (trying to find a Ford arm that will accept a GM 1-ton TRE)

You don't want to use a TRE on a drag link. You want to use drag link ends on your drag link. The difference between TRE's and DLE's is that DLE's can accommodate more angularity, which is necessary for a solid axle drag link. You need an ES2027L for the left hand thread side, and either a ES2027R or an ES2026R. For the pitman arm, this one should work - it has a 3.5" drop.

If you're crossover arm on your passenger knuckle isn't tapered for a drag link end, it can be retapered by anybody with the proper reamer. The guys at Parts Mike, WFO, and others can do that if it's needed.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Sorry MaxPF...I was trying to "dumb down" the jargon for people following this build. This type of work gets a bit confusing if you're not familiar with steering stuff. So...here's the REAL description of what I'm doing (sorry if I lose some of you):

Yes, I'm using DREs on the drag-link. Yes, the steering will be 1-ton TREs at the knuckles (RH & LH threaded). The passenger-side TRE will be the one with the tapered hole in it for the drag link connection. I'm only using this arrangement to keep the steering linkage as compact as possible. I would rather use a 2-hole arm on the passenger-side knuckle, and run a full-length drag-link but, this requires more space between the drag-link and the tie-rod...and I just don't have it. Remember...I'm using 1.5" DOM for all this stuff and the track-bar, drag-link, and tie-rod are all very big members, jockying for position under there. This "space problem" is compounded by the pitman arm length, and the arc that it travels from lock-to-lock. I cannot move the axle rearward. I cannot move the steering box any further forward. I cannot have the drag-link contacting the tie-rod. So my pitman arm selection is very critical, and I need a short one. Using a center-link connection is not my first choice...but it requires less "front-to-rear" space than the full-length knuckle arm connection.

In hindsight...stock GM knuckles (with lower tie-rod mounts) would work much better. I would still use a flat-top, and high-steer arm on the passenger-side...but only for the drag-link. This would allow me to "stack" the drag-link over the tie rod without worrying about them hitting each other. BUT...Since I already have knuckles installed, and the previous owner has cut the stock TR mounts off...I'm forced to run high-steer on both the drag-link and tie-rod. This means they share the same plane (front-to-rear), and thats sort of the root of my problem. I have considered flipping the tie-rod so it mounts to the bottom of the high-steer arms and keep the drag-link on top...but, that would require heims, and some goofy hardware which I really don't want.

I have numerous Saginaw pitmans laying around...in all sorts of drops and such but, they won't fit the Ford splines on the sector shaft. So, I'm faced with switching to a Ford pitman arm to get the correct splines. I know nuthin about Ford steering but, I do know that I need ‹A FORD PITMAN ARM...5" TO 5.5" LONG...WITH 0" TO 1-1/2" OF DROP...AND ENOUGH MEAT ON AROUND THE DL HOLE TO HOG-OUT FOR A 1-TON.‹ OR one like you suggested, that is already reamed for a GM 1-ton. The Ford EB box fits the H3 like a glove. The H3's steering shaft is in perfect alignment, and it damn near slips onto the stock Ford input! This is the box to use...no question. Because I'm running high-steer, with relatively low lift...I need a nearly flat drop on the pitman. The EB box is very tall and the sector shaft hangs down to an almost perfect height to align with my steering. This is so much better than my first attempt using a CJ Saginaw box...but I still need to find the right pitman arm. Rumor has it a 77 Ford Econoline Van has a similar arm...doing research on that now.

Reaming is not a problem, (my arms are un-drilled at this time). I got parts from PM, WFO, Barnes, Ruff-stuff, AtoZ, blah blah blah...pretty much everybody. Thanks for your input Max, I'm open to any suggestions.
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
Sorry MaxPF...I was trying to "dumb down" the jargon for people following this build. This type of work gets a bit confusing if you're not familiar with steering stuff. So...here's the REAL description of what I'm doing (sorry if I lose some of you):

Yes, I'm using DREs on the drag-link. Yes, the steering will be 1-ton TREs at the knuckles (RH & LH threaded). The passenger-side TRE will be the one with the tapered hole in it for the drag link connection. I'm only using this arrangement to keep the steering linkage as compact as possible. I would rather use a 2-hole arm on the passenger-side knuckle, and run a full-length drag-link but, this requires more space between the drag-link and the tie-rod...and I just don't have it. Remember...I'm using 1.5" DOM for all this stuff and the track-bar, drag-link, and tie-rod are all very big members, jockying for position under there. This "space problem" is compounded by the pitman arm length, and the arc that it travels from lock-to-lock. I cannot move the axle rearward. I cannot move the steering box any further forward. I cannot have the drag-link contacting the tie-rod. So my pitman arm selection is very critical, and I need a short one. Using a center-link connection is not my first choice...but it requires less "front-to-rear" space than the full-length knuckle arm connection.

In hindsight...stock GM knuckles (with lower tie-rod mounts) would work much better. I would still use a flat-top, and high-steer arm on the passenger-side...but only for the drag-link. This would allow me to "stack" the drag-link over the tie rod without worrying about them hitting each other. BUT...Since I already have knuckles installed, and the previous owner has cut the stock TR mounts off...I'm forced to run high-steer on both the drag-link and tie-rod. This means they share the same plane (front-to-rear), and thats sort of the root of my problem. I have considered flipping the tie-rod so it mounts to the bottom of the high-steer arms and keep the drag-link on top...but, that would require heims, and some goofy hardware which I really don't want.

I have numerous Saginaw pitmans laying around...in all sorts of drops and such but, they won't fit the Ford splines on the sector shaft. So, I'm faced with switching to a Ford pitman arm to get the correct splines. I know nuthin about Ford steering but, I do know that I need ‹A FORD PITMAN ARM...5" TO 5.5" LONG...WITH 0" TO 1-1/2" OF DROP...AND ENOUGH MEAT ON AROUND THE DL HOLE TO HOG-OUT FOR A 1-TON.‹ OR one like you suggested, that is already reamed for a GM 1-ton. The Ford EB box fits the H3 like a glove. The H3's steering shaft is in perfect alignment, and it damn near slips onto the stock Ford input! This is the box to use...no question. Because I'm running high-steer, with relatively low lift...I need a nearly flat drop on the pitman. The EB box is very tall and the sector shaft hangs down to an almost perfect height to align with my steering. This is so much better than my first attempt using a CJ Saginaw box...but I still need to find the right pitman arm. Rumor has it a 77 Ford Econoline Van has a similar arm...doing research on that now.

Reaming is not a problem, (my arms are un-drilled at this time). I got parts from PM, WFO, Barnes, Ruff-stuff, AtoZ, blah blah blah...pretty much everybody. Thanks for your input Max, I'm open to any suggestions.

OK, so you plan to run an inverted T, but you're space constrained. Got it :D

If you want to run your tie rod on the stock mounts, it just so happens that I have a pair of fully machined flat top knuckles collecting dust....

Are the splines different on the Ford sector shafts? I ask because I have a pitman arm that clearly has the "Ford" oval on it, but it fits my Saginaw box. The only difference is the master spline indexing is a few degrees off. Im pretty sure it is the length and drop you need, and it has already been reamed for the Chevy DLE...
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Damn...a tad late on the knuckles. I've already done the final assembly on my axle, and I'm trying like hell to get these to work. Plus, I already put new ball-joints and ARP high-steer studs in em. However, if I can't make the steering work with em...I'll be hittin you up. I started off with these knuckles thinking that high-steer would be better at keeping my tie-rod off the rocks. Never thought I would have the space issues I'm having but, once I started cutting and doing some mock-ups I realized just how "stubby" the nose of the H3 really is. Its tight under there.

On the pitman arm issue...I'm sort of headscratching. The biggest problem I'm having is that any and all pitman arms you can find are listed "by application". There is virtually no dimensional info on any of them. So that makes it difficult to find one to fit my situation. You basically have to poke around to try and find the one you need. I've got a both a saginaw CJ box, and a Ford Early Bronco box...and at first I thought they shared the same shaft dia. and splines. But, I can assure you they are different. The shafts look indentical from 12" away but the Ford uses finer intermediate splines, and the (4) main splines are actually keys, instead of grooves (opposite from the Saginaw arrangement). So, I know for sure the two won't interchange.

The Ford box came with a pitman arm that fits perfectly. However it has a rather small hole for the drag-link stud, and its taper is upside-down from what I want (made to mount the joint on TOP of the pitman with the stud pointing down). I would love to hog-out this hole, and re-taper it in the correct direction for the 1-ton GM joint but, there's not much metal around the hole and I'm conerned it will split the arm when I tighten the castle nut. And yes...I have thought of cutting two arms and welding them together. Not crazy about that idea.

Here's some pics of all this. First pic shows the 1-ton stuff and arms are (L-R)... 1. Billet Saginaw arm with smooth hole for heim. 2. Billet Saginaw arm with a threaded hole. 3. Custom Saginaw Jeep arm from Parts Mike #535PA 4. Ford arm that came with the Bronco box. NOTICE the extra meet around the drag-link hole on the 3rd arm. Second pic shows the spline difference...
View attachment 4270 View attachment 4271
 

08H3

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,368
Location
United States
Project is looking good. It's going to be one legendary H3 by the time you're done. Remember, when you're ready to move on to a new project and sell it, I get dibs! :)
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
If the spline and taper of the Saginaw arms are otherwise the same as the Ford, and one of the Saginaw arms will work, then have a machine shop cut away the key splines with an end mill.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Nope...they're too different. Still brainstorming. I'm gonna hit some Ford websites and see if anybody else has a solution.
 

silvrzuki77

Well-Known Member
Messages
556
Location
Vegas
Hey no excuse's!! lol just kidding. Great info on the steering box, Im going to have to pick up a EB box along with the landcruiser box and see what is going to work for my axle. Looking forward to hearing about the first drive.
I'm quite far away from a test drive. I have just finished re-working the track bar and installing the Ford steering box. I still have all of this to do:

Pitman arm (trying to find a Ford arm that will accept a GM 1-ton TRE)
Brake lines
Shocks
Shock mounts
Bump stops
Steering links
Sway bars
Lock-outs (or drive flanges)
Driveshaft mods
Computer-tune
Brake pads (EBC greenies)

Whew. I'm sure I forgot some stuff...but I'm far from driving it.

As I'm sure Recon can tell you...this ain't something you're gonna do in a weekend.
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,056
Location
Cabool MO
Any news on your sas kits? I may be picking up a Dana 44 tomorrow. This is currently my driver, I would hate to only have the sunfire on the road. So it will be months before I get serious but I plan on starting to gather the parts.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Totally agree. Get the axle assembly done first. You can be working on that before you tear your truck apart. Chances are you'll want to re-gear and probably rebuild the differential. I would recommend 5.13s or 4.88s depending on your tire size and how un-practical you want to go. New bearings, seals, etc. are all typically needed. You can also install a locker at the same time, if funds permit.

Then, you can work your way to the outers...check the ball-joints, U-joints, hub-bearings, seals, blah blah. You can take the stock braking system off and junk it. If you have an 8-lug version...you can junk the hubs too. You will need a passenger-side knuckle that has been machined, drilled, and tapped for a cross-over steering arm. Unless you know the history of the axle...I would junk the lockouts. New Warn lock-outs are only $90. Lastly check the axle shafts and U-joints...rebuild em (or upgrade to chro-mo). After all that...you are ready for the ABS hubs, caliper mounts, rotors, and wheel studs. I can get all this stuff for you...pre-engineered to bolt-on. Clean up the housing...grind off the stock brackets...paint it all purdy. Then start planning.

In the meantime, you can start collecting some other stuff:
A Nissan Xterra Steering box...from a Gen I (2000-2004).
Matching gearset for the 8.6" rear axle.
SOA parts for the rear springs.
Decide what type of front suspension you want.
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,056
Location
Cabool MO
Yep that is the plan. I will most likely regear the rear. Will be going 5.13's. I think the coil spring front is the way to go. I plan to upgrade axles. I have broken to many stock ones and lost count. Air or electric locker for the front. The rear locker will go in as soon as I'm back from Australia. My wife is surprising nervous about letting me do this. May have to buy her another car. I know were a bunch of 3/4 ton 44's are. Didn't think about them just using different hubs. Will make sure its old enough for the flat top passenger knuckle. Machining it and tapping is no problem.

Thanks for the email.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
If you're gonna do a complete tear-down and re-build, might as well start with a 3/4t. This will give you the bigger tubes, spindles, and shafts. And yes...these are lying around everywhere.

BTW...you can find these axles with factory 4.56s & 4.11s, in which case you could leave the front diff/gears alone...and also leave the stock H3 rear end alone. This could save you as much as $2000 on your build. I think 07Custom (the white Rhino) has stock 4.56 gearing in his SA H3. I for one, just love the 5.13s and 37s but, its worth mentioning to those that are on a tight budget....A SAS does not necessarily mean you gotta have lockers and gears.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,496
Location
Meridian, ID
If you're gonna do a complete tear-down and re-build, might as well start with a 3/4t. This will give you the bigger tubes, spindles, and shafts. And yes...these are lying around everywhere.

BTW...you can find these axles with factory 4.56s & 4.11s, in which case you could leave the front diff/gears alone...and also leave the stock H3 rear end alone. This could save you as much as $2000 on your build. I think 07Custom (the white Rhino) has stock 4.56 gearing in his SA H3. I for one, just love the 5.13s and 37s but, its worth mentioning to those that are on a tight budget....A SAS does not necessarily mean you gotta have lockers and gears.

I agree you can always add gears and lockers later if your trying to keep the cost low
 
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