Hummer H1 diffs....so why not?

[SolidusJ]

I honestly don't see the big deal with this but I work on these things all day. Get the diff from a civilian ran DMARO or some old timer that sells military trucks/parts then make mounts for it. Now the cv's might be the biggest pain if the HMMWV are too short or long plus the splines to the hubs but I really think this could work.

 

[Bigunit]

Hey Dwaine, sorry I wasnt trying to come off that way, heck I have a scorpion rc car from walmart that my kids still drive around! I even have polaroids pictures from that truck brand new that inspired me to build my tube buggy.
With all the KOH stuff and unlimited trophy truck stuff I've been helping with times have changed. I appreciate the fact people are still passionate to look at alternatives, versus dropping it off at a shop.

Silverzuki, times have indeed changed and that's why spending thousands of dollars on jeep SAS or H1 suspension parts that even the military is saying needs to be replaced with something more off road capable is not the answer for our rigs. IMO, its' time and money going to waste with these types of armchair engineering discussions. I'm curious to know what you have come up with that is more off road capable than a Scorpion suspension in the real world vs. ideas. Have you ever personally driven or wheeled a Scorpion? Let's have an honest and fact-based discussion vs. opinions on what you believe is"outdated" because the SAS has been "out-dated" for about 30 years now if not more, yet some feel that the SAS is going to take our HUMMERS on the Road to Mecca and even the military is saying that the HMMWV is outdated! Been there done that many times. If people subscribe to that idea, then just buy a Jeep Rubicon and be done with it, as some have already done so.

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[silvrzuki77]

Silverzuki, times have indeed changed and that's why spending thousands of dollars on jeep SAS or H1 suspension parts that even the military is saying needs to be replaced with something more off road capable is not the answer for our rigs. IMO, its' time and money going to waste with these types of armchair engineering discussions. I'm curious to know what you have come up with that is more off road capable than a Scorpion suspension in the real world vs. ideas. Have you ever personally driven or wheeled a Scorpion? Let's have an honest and fact-based discussion vs. opinions on what you believe is"outdated" because the SAS has been "out-dated" for about 30 years now if not more, yet some feel that the SAS is going to take our HUMMERS on the Road to Mecca and even the military is saying that the HMMWV is outdated! Been there done that many times. If people subscribe to that idea, then just buy a Jeep Rubicon and be done with it, as some have already done so.

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Bigunit, thousand of dollars on HMMWV parts???? I dont know about arizona but on govliquidation here at Nellis Airforce base that stuff is cheap!!! Of course the HMMWV is outdated in suspension it was bullt in what 84 or 85? You say arm chair engineering where do you think fabricators start there careers? 10 years in college or whatever getting a degree? My good friend owns Gearworks you can google that if you like, started in his garage here in vegas with a buddy and is now a leader in Unlimited and class one buggies building transmission and rear ends. Learned everything own his own striving to make the best product. I know you jump to Dewaine side the instant someone says something, but he is a fabricator and I am 100% positive he has learned a million things on the job. Can I fabricate like he can? Nope dont have the tools, time, or experience. This is a hobby for me, I only build 4 link and 3 link suspension for fun and started selling Offroad teardrops. Personally having a tube buggy is a pain in the azz! Load the trailer tow it with tow truck to where ever wheel and then come home. I am over that personally. Hammers , moab, rubicon, logandale trails, area 51, been there done that(life without kids was nice). Had a nice HD 44 sitting in my garage high steer blah blah Along with several chevy D60 sitting there also. Decided to sell them. Why? cause at the moment I see no reason to swap it it in with a 4 link or 3 link for my personal use. So my solidworks sits unused for that at the moment. Have I personally seen several scorpions in use when Sonny built them being used on the Hammers in johnson valley. Did they work awesome hell yeah, but Ive seen todays IFS rigs walk those same trails like a parking lot speed bump on last couple of KOH races. Please qoute me if I said SAS was the way to go, cause I dont remeber saying that. Like I said I have had built tube buggy that I actually built my self in my garage and that buggy is still being abused today after several different owners. I believe jeep is talking about ditchin the solid axle in 2016. For me I would prefer a long travel suspension for the desert roads I travel. Besides the BS PS pump failing on me I have put a ton of high speed desert miles on my T since I bought it from your buddy. At least 4speedfunk is making a full on effort here, and has tried multiple options versus the bench racing we are doing right now. Obviously you felt I attacked your buddy, which I apologized for, but I feel your attacking me what have you bullt?

 

[Expendable]

none of my info answered your question. so I'll take my bull elsewhere.

 

[4speedfunk]

If you flipped an amc20 over you could solve that problem.

Yes 06H3...thats exactly it. Flip it up-side-down so the ring gear is on the other side of the pinion. I think that's what ATV was trying to tell me but, I wasn't gettin what he was pitchin. Flipping it will keep the input rotation (on the yoke) in the same direction, while changing the output rotation (at the carrier) to run backwards. In fact...the more I look at it, I think that's what AM General did in the first place. This seems to make sense with the fact that the old-school AMC-20 ring & pinions still fit it...they didn't invent a HP version, they flipped it! I'm betting you could flip it back over, Jeep style and it would have zero effect on the oiling. After all, it would be returned to the original low-pinion arrangement and gravity would do the rest. Pop in some 4.88s and some custom half-shafts, and use the rest of the stock H3 stuff. Mounting it looks to be much easier since it already has plenty of threaded holes all over it. Of course, you would have to extend the driver-side output via a shaft & tube somehow...not sure how to do that. But, the unit looks to be small enough to fit up in the available space. Oh yeah...you might have to drill & tap a new drain plug (on the bottom), and convert the old one (on top) to a vent - LOL.

The AMC-20 is hardly anything bad-ass...but the H1 version has all the IFS stuff pre-designed into it: Flanged output shafts, seals, mounting points, etc. Between the Hummer parts and Jeep parts...there seems to be plenty of diff and gearing options. Like most diffs...the weak link is probably the spiders and axle splines, and because you are using the Hummer output shafts and carrier...its probably been given some tweeks compared to the 60s-era internals of the original Jeep AMC-20. I'm sure you can expect some strength "de-rating" by running it directly to the wheels (without an additional reduction from the portals)...but it can't be any worse than the AAM-7!

In regards to all the other b.s. that this topic always brings up: I'm just looking to put a $400 H1 IFS pumpkin into an H3, period. I don't care about H1s, H1 suspension, inboard brakes, portal gearing, tube-chassis's, high-end shops, Dynatrac, or any of these other ridiculously expensive ideas. CHEAP people. CHEAP! I'm talking under $2500...DIY...used parts...etc. Good ole grass-roots beergineering, type stuff. Around here I have a four-digit limit ($xxxx) on any and all 4x4 mods. Any more than that and I need to get my head examined.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Rock on buddy!

 

[MTUH3]

I like the idea. After a lot of thinking, I am going to tweak the direction I was heading on my H3, so finding a way to center a differential with as long as possible half-shaft is what I would like to see.

Keep thinking about it and poking at it. Sounds interesting.

 

[SolidusJ]

Well I tried :roll:

 

[06 H3]

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/39578-amc-20-axle/

Some good info here...

4speed is dead on the money. Dont want to be rude but **** everything else. This is strictly AMC 20 tech. If you wanna adapt an H1 suspension to an H3 start a new thread. If you wanna put a scorpion suspension under an H3 start a new thread. The ring gear is bigger then a D44 and stub shafts are already set.

I think high pinion is great for solid front axles but are useless for our IFS application. All a high pinion does for our IFS is make more problems getting the oil pan and diff to avoid hitting. Luckily the amc 20 you flip it back to its orignal low pinion design, it spins the right way and its going to be less of an issue with the oil pan.

The problem with the AMC 20 was its 2 piece design but I think the IFS AMC 20 ditched that issue all together.

 

[am4x4]

AMC 20's got a well deserved bad rep in the jeeps for good reason.

#1- 2 piece axles. Not an issue in the h1

#2-weak axle housing tubes. Not an issue in an H1.

#3 weak carrier. Not an issue in an H1 and could easily be solved with an aftermarket locker.

This has mostly been covered but the H1 uses a low pinion diff flipped over. The motor, trans, transfer case, and driveshafts spin the normal direction. The flipped diff reverses the direction and the cv's spin backwards, the two gear portals reverse the rotation back to normal. You could take an H1 diff and installed it with the pinion on the bottom and everything would turn the correct direction in an H3.

You would need to confirm that lower gears from a jeep would fit. It is possible that there were changes even though they kept the "20" name. For example there at least 4 different dana 44's that you cannot swap gears between.

The only other issue I could see is that you would need one short and one long half shaft to offset the diff to the pass side, easy enough if you are having custom shafts made


Other options to consider would be a Dana 44 out of a Jag IRS rear end or a ford 8.8 out of a mustang or explorer with IRS. I have not messed with either but they should have mounts and be readily adaptable to cv's.....should be cheaper and easier to find too

 

[alrock]

I need to get my head examined.

That fact was well established the day you bought an H3

 

[mudbug]

If I had my H3 in Alaska I would give this a shot.

 

[4speedfunk]

That fact was well established the day you bought an H3

Haha...too late now!

 

[3Hummers]

AMC 20's got a well deserved bad rep in the jeeps for good reason.

#1- 2 piece axles. Not an issue in the h1

#2-weak axle housing tubes. Not an issue in an H1.

#3 weak carrier. Not an issue in an H1 and could easily be solved with an aftermarket locker.

So just get an H1.

 

[4speedfunk]

So just get an H1

Won't fit on any of the trails I wheel. :no:

 

[3Hummers]

I have run into that a few times but not that often. That is one reason I bought my H3.

 

[Mb30sdl]

Great idea versus a a rich mans with deep pockets and no conecpt of money dana 80 thats over priced and a less than ideal suspension design as the scorpion. (Which was cool when it was designed, but outdated). 4speedfunk I like your passion into finding a good alternative and investigation.

I had a friend flip a toyota 3rd to high pinion and figured out how to properly oil it. Been running great for the last 4 yrs.

I see it differently, it's how much YOUR time worth to YOU. spending 12 month under a truck is romantic idea, but family and life usually comes first. So it's a lot easier to make money at what you do best and let "professionals" do what they do. Great ideas are good only if you have time and money to implement them. Personally I am not willing to build my truck for years and then rebuild it again because something is not right.(that will take more time and money that paying "professionals")