H2 vs H3

[MessiaH2]

OK Guys I really think we can all help each other, help others. Here is what I propose and why... There seems to be a bunch of misconceptions about Hummers in general but my concern is more about us as a group. I do not feel i represent the H3 guys very well.:shame:

I myself, before coming on this Forum did not even give the H3 a second look at all. I honestly thought it was nothing more then a marketing ploy for GM to try and make money and believe me I think many more people have that same feeling. Now please don't bash me yet as I am admitting my ignorance and apologizing for it. Now I will say since I have been here and had my eyes opened I am very intrigued and glad that H2 has a little brother (is that politically correct?), not just a wasted icon. From what I am reading some models have some badass features that fit into true wheelers.

What I was thinking for this thread was for us to share and explain some of these misconceptions so we are all better informed. I am NOT trying to exclude you H1 guys but that is a whole other can of worms because you guys are just too awesome!. What I would like to get out of this is information from you guys behind the wheel so in my case, I can talk informatively to outsiders about H3's as I do with H2's. I would love feedback from both sides because I also believe H3 guys could learn more about the H2 stigmas too.

Truths about my H2 from an H2 guy -

CONS - Big & Heavy, gas guzzler, under sized weak transmission, pricey, NOT solid axles, full time 4x4,

PROS - Big & Heavy, great wheeler, Drives small, rides fantastic, turns heads, MOST comfortable seats ever for my bad back, heated seats are HOT as hell, sound system is good, Air pump is great feature, pisses off Prius owners, handles awesome in snow.


So please tell me some truths about your H3's and why they are so awesome. I have read many times of how they compare to jeeps when off roading but never with an explanation to why. Lets get it out in the open so I can better defend you and ask away to us H2 guys so you are all informed.

Above are just some basic facts/opinions but I would like explanations more in detail.

Lets start with H2 Suspension.
So I personally have the Air Bags on my 03' and Love them. The ride is fantastic but maintenance cost can bite you in the ass. It pulls trailers very nice and handles rough roads and terrain like a champ.

Now because it does NOT have solid axles and leaf springs it is a pain in the ass to lift past 6". But because it is so big stock and already on 35's, a 6" lift allows you to easily run up to about 40" tires and 15" wide (not recommended by lift company) which is a beast of a tire.
side note - I have the 6" FabTech and it fit awesome and would highly recommend it. I believe I have 410 gears in it stock and I seem to have the ability to lock out some stuff from the dash which does make a difference. That could just be because of the package I have. From what I have been reading the packages make a huge difference. Maybe someone can chime in for me on what I think is an Adventure Package?

So are all H3's solid axle? easy to lift, easily maintained? ETC...

 

[06 H3]

Pros of the H3:
Nimble/smaller then the big brother H1 and H2.
Rides very well compared to other vehicles in its class, Jeeps, xterras, etc.
Good winter snow vehicle
Stable
Good Daily Driver
Unique
leaf springs rear (easy to modify suspension and get flex in spring under and over applications)
doors come off with ease.

Cons:
Front diff
Steering rack
Tie rods
power if you have the I5
Cant regear
Gas mileage
GVWR is not far off from curb weight

 

[06 H3]

H3 suspension
Torsion bar front
leaf springs in spring under configuration

Rides nice, I know linked suspensions in general terms ride nicer but the leafs suit the H3 well and have no handling complaints, more of oem shock complaints (too soft)
Torsion bar up front easy to level out, good 4in lift that doesnt drop torsion bars for lifting

Leaf springs flex great too. Do even better in spring over form.

I wouldnt change a thing about the suspension I currently have set up, 4in rancho front spring over rear, just beef up the front end components so I could regear and run 37/38s.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Pros:
not a solid axle front suspension = better ride
very comfortable - far more comfortable than a Jeep
tighter turning circle than just about everything
solid feel
great power (Alpha)
great torque (all the rest)
GM quality
not a jeep
better roll-over protection than a jeep
GM interchangeability
They fit, sizewise, between a 2 door and 4 door Jeep - 4 doors are longer/narrower
Better storage spaces
padded rear compartment for my dogs.... never thought I'd appreciate it as much as I do.
Lots more power than a Jeep.... and the Jeeps - all want LS motors, no need with an Alpha.... and in that vein, it's easier to swap a solid front axle than a smog-legal motor

cons:
All parts are pretty much custom made
not solid axle (tough to lift)
everyone thinks it's an H2
several weak links - to be fair, though, the number and cost of fixing an H3 weak link is always less money than fixing a Jeeps..
Mopar quality.... ever heard those two words together? there's little fear that Fiat added anything to bring those two words together
Many days I wonder (most times cynically) if GM actually gave them worse fuel economy to promote the "hummer" lifestyle...

 

[Kyle]

Pros: small, semi decent gas mileage, Great on tight trails, leather is great, seat warmers can burn your back lol, rides great, easily put 35s on with no lift, monsoon system bumps hard! and also pisses tree huggers off.

Cons: VERY VERY underpowered I-5 engine, weak steering rack, weak ifs, weak transmission, 15mpg average in the city for a 5 banger could be better.

 

[LagunaH1]

I loved my '08 H3 Alpha but I can't help but think that the H3 wasn't intended for the kind of serious wheeling we do. So, the comments about "weak" components should, in my opinion, be taken with a grain of salt, with the exception of that #$@$#$% front diff carrier bushing

Pros:
Nimble and confortable handling. Excellent daily driver.
Great stability & traction control system (got me out of trouble once or twice)
Lots of off-road capability in stock form
4:1 transfer case on adventure models

Cons:
Weak / poorly designed front diff carrier bushing.
Alpha's engine output appears to be reduced a lot when driving in hot conditions (city / stop & go in hot weather)

 

[Kyle]

I loved my '08 H3 Alpha but I can't help but think that the H3 wasn't intended for the kind of serious wheeling we do. So, the comments about "weak" components should, in my opinion, be taken with a grain of salt, with the exception of that #$@$#$% front diff carrier bushing

Pros:
Nimble and confortable handling. Excellent daily driver.
Great stability & traction control system (got me out of trouble once or twice)
Lots of off-road capability in stock form
4:1 transfer case on adventure models

Cons:
Weak / poorly designed front diff carrier bushing.
Alpha's engine output appears to be reduced a lot when driving in hot conditions (city / stop & go in hot weather)

do you have a cold air intake?

 

[LagunaH1]

do you have a cold air intake?

Nope

 

[Kyle]

Nope

id try a cold air intake to help!

 

[LagunaH1]

Well, I don't have my H3 anymore, I replaced it with an H1

Other than that, from what little I read about the issue, it's not *just* a matter or intake air temperature.

 

[DJinCO]

The trails that I travel on are just too narrow for an H2. My Tahoe cannot make it on these trails because of the width issues. I am not terribly concerned with the power issue. Yes, the I5 has less HP than a 5.3L but I am not in that big of a hurry.

If I could find an Alpha Adventure with low miles, I would be happy to trade in the Tahoe. I would prefer white. Black shows way too many pin-stripes from the trees.

 

[cbetts]

One thing I have learned is that a vehicles capability mostly lies with the driver. I know my H3 has been places it probably shouldn't have gone.

 

[f5moab]

I loved my '08 H3 Alpha but I can't help but think that the H3 wasn't intended for the kind of serious wheeling we do. So, the comments about "weak" components should, in my opinion, be taken with a grain of salt, with the exception of that #$@$#$% front diff carrier bushing

Pros:
Nimble and confortable handling. Excellent daily driver.
Great stability & traction control system (got me out of trouble once or twice)
Lots of off-road capability in stock form
4:1 transfer case on adventure models

Cons:
Weak / poorly designed front diff carrier bushing.
Alpha's engine output appears to be reduced a lot when driving in hot conditions (city / stop & go in hot weather)

that's interesting. Did the engine temps go up when this happened? I'm assuming you were on flat land and not headed up into the mountains since HP decreases as you rise in altitude. I know the ECM is capable of reducing power, but it should only happen when the engine temp is in the red (power can be reduced on any GM engine by the ECM or PCM).

 

[ArtHummer]

I'm not an expert in 4x4, but here is my 2c about H3...
One thing I don't understand is why is it compared to Jeep Wrangler? It's an absolutely different class. If you compare it correctly you will have to compare it to Jeep Grand Cherokee and others like Pathfinder and LR. In it's own category H3 outshines the rest in off-road capabilities.
Yes, the Wrangler, if you will dumb a big amount of cash in it, is a better offroader. But if you do that comparison you have to compare the rest of the factors to Wrangler as well. Does a Jeep got better gas millage? No. Does it have more power? No. Is it faster? No... On the highway I would take my "slow" and "underpowered" I5 over the Jeep any day.
Yes, Jeep is solid with it front axle design, but it been around for ages and there are allot of upgrades to make it stronger. IFS is a relatively new design for the 4x4 and there are lots of weak links, but overall it is a BETTER design. We just need more guys willing to spend money and time to improve it(trial and error). Look at the trophy trucks and they all got IFS. Now we need something close to it that can be adapted to H3.

 

[LagunaH1]

that's interesting. Did the engine temps go up when this happened? I'm assuming you were on flat land and not headed up into the mountains since HP decreases as you rise in altitude. I know the ECM is capable of reducing power, but it should only happen when the engine temp is in the red (power can be reduced on any GM engine by the ECM or PCM).

This is all based on memory for obvious reasons...

What I experienced many times while I had my H3 was that on hot days, driving around town in stop & go traffic, the engine would feel sluggish and temp gauge would be at about 3/4 (sometimes a little higher). I subsequently read about others who had similar experiences (seems to be particular to the Alpha's) and who stated that they had been told by GM or by a dealer (I don't recall which) that the engine computer would change ignition timing to reduce power and prevent the engine from getting even hotter. -I'll admit that I am going solely by memory here, but their statement(s) match my own first hand experience quite well.

 

[Happy Hummer]

Lol! I owned a Jeep Wrangler 2006...I6 (venerable cast iron hi nickel 4.0 HO). It was tough as nails and took a a$$ whooping plowing and towing and landscaping.Now the down side...The Jeep (Just Empty Every Pocket) is absolutely without a doubt got to have the poorest Quality Control issus of any vehicle I've owned.he list of things that broke or fell off or out was incredible for a vehicle with 42K miles at trade. I'm absolutely anal when it comes to maintenance and overall stewardship duties of my 4x4 but it was a rattle trap when I traded it for Happy.By the way the Jeep would run circles around Happy any day of the week (lol you have to repair it 1st tho).I'm actually here in this thread reading hoping some more H2 guys will pop in with the pros and cons.I'm thinking about an H2sut or H2 for the biz.ChrisChris

 

[MessiaH2]

So far so good... Great start!!! SO i have already learned in Summery that there is an ALPHA model which seems to be the workhorse of the group. So if someone were to talk **** about an H3 they saw I could comfortable ask was it an ALPHA or I5 because there seems to be a big difference.

Are all ALPHA's the same package? I guess i am asking about the Adventure package compared to other packages. Are all ALPHA's adventure packages or is that completely separate like on the H2's? I am NOT even sure what and how many packages they offered on H3... When I bought mine, it was first year 03' so I just bought it as it was. Hoping an H2 guy chimes in and tells me what I actually have..LOL I went back and looked at my papers when i bought it and it figures, nothing was listed. From my research I actually have the Adventure Package, Plus other upgrades like the GOBI racks, headset DVDs, 3rd row seat.

I agree with ARTHUMMER... it seems like everyone does not compare apples to apples when it comes to vehicles.. that is one reason I started this thread My impression about H3's has changed considerable and i would consider them the real deal and would NOT mind owning one myself.

Everyone can keep throwing in more info about suspensions but lets jump to packages:I am under the impression from what I read that "The Hummer H2 comes in the Base model or either the Adventure or Lux Package"...???
[FONT=Helvetica Neue Light, HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I found this on a Google search [/FONT]http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-buy-a-Hummer-H2-/10000000000024786/g.html (interesting enough, No guide on H3)
The HUMMER site says that there was just an H2 and H2 SUT, they also list an H3, H3T, H3X and H3 ALPHA

Let's Sum up and clarify the different packages on both H2 & H3's

 

[LagunaH1]

http://lynchhummer.com/Changes/index.html

 

[MessiaH2]

I'm actually here in this thread reading hoping some more H2 guys will pop in with the pros and cons.I'm thinking about an H2sut or H2 for the biz.ChrisChris

Chris, from what I found the later models and SUT have more HP and are lighter then the standard H2. So if I was looking for performance i would be searching out an H2 SUT with the Adventure package. (I think like 65 more Hp and 1500 lbs less) LARRY

 

[MessiaH2]

http://lynchhummer.com/Changes/index.html

WOW what a great LINK.... THANKS :thumbsup

Hopefully we still get drivers perspectives...LOL

 

[f5moab]

True, the ECM will change timing and fuel pulse widths to help reduce engine temps. I was told it should not happen until the gauge was in the red. But, the gauge is not noted to be that accurate anyway. Not sure of the engine temps this will happen at; I might still have that info somewhere. It can also happen to the I5; however, many of us back in the GM days, before the release of the Alpha questioned the radiator size. Oh well, I'll never own an Alpha...

 

[Kyle]

True, the ECM will change timing and fuel pulse widths to help reduce engine temps. I was told it should not happen until the gauge was in the red. But, the gauge is not noted to be that accurate anyway. Not sure of the engine temps this will happen at; I might still have that info somewhere. It can also happen to the I5; however, many of us back in the GM days, before the release of the Alpha questioned the radiator size. Oh well, I'll never own an Alpha...

why wont you ever own an alpha?

 

[mantracker]

I have a 2006 H3 Adventure. That year came only with the 3.5 I5 engine. Also, you could either get the luxury package OR the adventure package, seperate. In other words,"one or the other". The Adventure comes with a larger tire than the Luxury model. A locking rear diff., a heftier suspension, and a little more under carriage protection.
I sometimes think I want an Alpha for the extra power, but then again, I'm happy with the I5, as it seems to be tuff and reliable as the old in line 6 cylinders from back in the 50's and 60's. A friend of mine has a Colorado with the I5 and he has well over 300,000 on it, and it is still running strong.
By the way, I had no trouble passing a convoy of military HMMWV's on the interstate the other day.:giggle:

 

[MessiaH2]

True, the ECM will change timing and fuel pulse widths to help reduce engine temps. I was told it should not happen until the gauge was in the red. But, the gauge is not noted to be that accurate anyway. Not sure of the engine temps this will happen at; I might still have that info somewhere. It can also happen to the I5; however, many of us back in the GM days, before the release of the Alpha questioned the radiator size. Oh well, I'll never own an Alpha...

F5 I am very confused by your response in this thread...It must be late and i am too damn tired.

 

[LagunaH1]

F5's post was, I believe, in response to my comments about H3 Alpha engine's apparent reduction in power under hot conditions