atvspeed4 build

[cgalpha08]

IMO i would go with the 35's, because you get the extra spare and less likely to break things

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[06 H3]

I vote 37s because everyone says 37s will break stuff and mathematically they are probably right but who knows maybe they will last and then you will have cold hard facts on how 37s can last on stock axles

 

[atvspeed4]

Damn we are at a tie right now! Hmmmmm

 

[atvspeed4]

They are officially done and installed!! They are huge compared to stock!

 

[Medic_Morgan]

I want!!! Soo beefy!!!


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[Medic_Morgan]

No opinions on the tire situation?

I am also looking to install this massive rear swaybar http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/7682.html and then remove the front swaybar permanently. I have removed or made disconnects for many of the trucks I have built but I really think with the H3 that I would have the same or less body roll than I have now (attached front and rear) but have a MUCH smoother ride on and offroad.

BTW Hellwig's shop is right by my work... I wonder if I take my 3 in if they'd offer me a better price and custom install


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[atvspeed4]

Lucky! Id love to have their shop near by to see what they thought.

It's amazing how much more precise the steering feels with these tierods!

 

[Nacho]

I vote 37s because everyone says 37s will break stuff and mathematically they are probably right but who knows maybe they will last and then you will have cold hard facts on how 37s can last on stock axles

^what he said

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[Hunner]

Lucky! Id love to have their shop near by to see what they thought.

It's amazing how much more precise the steering feels with these tierods!

Welcome to the world of not having your OEM tie rods flexing.
Are those OEM ends? or did you have some with larger shafts and end ball housings made?

 

[06 H3]

I want mine in red please :hans:

 

[atvspeed4]

Welcome to the world of not having your OEM tie rods flexing.
Are those OEM ends? or did you have some with larger shafts and end ball housings made?

The outer is from a f250. The inner is a recut moog ballsocket. Different design on the small inner taper than the Gm part and much harder material used in construction. Machine shop found the moog material to have a much better heat treat than Gm. This made for longer machine time but stronger finished product.

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[06 H3]

How much?

 

[atvspeed4]

Not sure yet, have a lot of testing to do and we are waiting for a quote back from a shop building a rebuildable ball socket for us. I promise to keep posted. We didn't even plan on designing these till next year but after being stuck in the woods for 9 hrs with a snapped tierod we decided to fix it the right way!

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[4speedfunk]

Great looking tie-rods. Although I never broke a stock one, they seem pretty wimpy for offroad use. There is certainly a need for affordable tie-rod options...because right now its either $75 for stock or $869 for bullet-proof units.

(sorry...laughing so hard, I had to take a moment to gather myself)

Now where was I?....Oh yeah...Make a bunch of those and sell em for $200/pair (what tie-rods should cost), and you'll have a winner.

As for the 35"s vs. 37" debate?...I've run both and the biggest issue isn't breakage...its the gearing. You're going to loose a bunch of power with the 37"s unless you re-gear. Since re-gearing the front requires a complete axle swap, its hard to justify 37"s for an extra 1" of clearance. I'm currently running 37"s and 5.13s, and they are nice but, my next SA H3 will be sitting a tad lower and I plan to use 35"s again. I think they are a more practical size, and I also think that 35"s can be just as capable off-road, if you build your rig to use them. Right now, my rig is sitting high enough that 37"s look and work good. But, if I could lower it an inch or two...I think it would work just as good with 35"s and be more practical at the same time. The 37"s have noticably more "flywheel" action to them, and they take longer to wind-up and longer to slow down. It takes awhile to get use to this. Offroad they are awesome...but just like everything, you trade-off some street manners.

 

[atvspeed4]

Glad you like the tierods, sorry it took so long for me to get them done! We have been talking about them on the forum since the spring but I needed the last breakage to motivate me to get them done ASAP. As for pricing Im really hoping to be no higher than $400 max. I really want them to be lower than that so we will see. I could never justify paying more than $400 for any tierods...

As for tires I am leaning towards 35's now. I'd love to run 37s but until I build a custom front ifs diff next year I agree the gearing just wouldnt make sense especially with how much driving I do.

 

[Hunner]

I'm laughing too as I did not pay anywhere near $869 dollars for BP tie rods even after having all the design and machine work done on the original set.
Mine cost me more like about what two sets of 14mm OEM cost at the time and they were hard to find if at all for several months. ha ha

 

[4speedfunk]

Given the durability issues with the stock rack & pinion....I find it hard to justify the cost of ANY aftermarket tie-rods. I mean...you can buy an entire Mondo rack with 16mm tie-rods already installed on it for under $300. If you have hit something hard enough to bend or break a tie-rod...there is a pretty good chance that you also cracked your rack housing (whether you realize it or not). Many of us (Hunner) know a cracked housing can continue to operate for years, and it only becomes obvious after the two pieces start to separate. For this reason, I've always thought that H3 steering racks are "consumables", and they need to be replaced periodically...especially after a hard impact. GM surely must have known this...and perhaps that's why there's no grease fittings, and also why a new rack includes tie-rods. This might also explain why it took several months to locate stock tie-rods by themselves...because nobody replaces them alone! For $300 bucks you can replace everything. True...its stock stuff, and not anything cool or beefy but, at least you know you've got 100% new steering and you're good until the next hard hit.

I'm not poo-pooing beefy tie-rods. I just think they're a tad overkill until somebody dreams-up an equally beefy rack unit. Any tie-rods you install, are still inherently connected to the stock rack unit that needs periodic inspection and/or replacement. Even if your beefy tie-rods out-live your rack....you can't buy just a new rack. It comes with new tie rods anyway. As much as I hate to admit it..."component-izing" makes sense. Finish these tie-rods off with a matching rack unit...and you got something!

 

[atvspeed4]

...Its only time and money before we are done with the upgraded mounts. As for my broken tierod, it did not break from a hard hit but rather a steep climb where the tires traction pulling bent the tierod in towards the swaybar link. It actually happened with very low wheel speed.

 

[Hunner]

As always, part of the reason for the BP tie rod project was to help prevent rack damage. When OEM max out at about 23 degrees and those tiny shafts at the inner ball end leverage against the ball cage, well something has to give.
The BP will articulate to 30 degrees which should help prevent that but the H3 suspension does not often get to that full amount and then without some modifications.
Oh I believe in the throw away rack. That is why I carry a spare and have some stashed. What I don't want to do is have a failure of either that or the tie rods in remote places or just in Trail Parks when there is an option to either avoid that or greatly reduce the chances of it happening. I got tired of worrying when that was going to happen and it sort of took the fun out of it.
I can do the replacement, it's just not that much fun in certain circumstances!
I check my rack often. I had one fail on a trail as some may recall and even on a trail, steering is really impaired, to the point you cannot control it especially off camber and in loose rock. I fear what the result would be at highway speeds after leaving the trail when it let go completely. You really have to compensate for the slack of the outer rack moving. Like as much as a full turn of the steering wheel and then..........

Good job atvspeed4 I think your design will prevent the most common failure, which seems to be them bending or breaking at the threaded joint by looking at lots of images of ones that failed. Glad someone finally took the initiative rather than just carrying a pile of tie rods.
Here once again are the images I have gathered up when I was studying the problem.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?1948-Tie-rods-broken

 

[atvspeed4]

Well we have 300 DD miles on the tierods so far and they feel amazing compared to the stock pieces. Now next in line is getting back to this which I posted in July http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...o-fix-the-steering-rack-issue-on-the-H3/page7

The shop is currently working on a few changes we made and hopefully we have it installed soon. We will also be testing both delrin and solid aluminum in the driverside mounts as we are confident that you will need both to make the rack last long term.

We also will be turning and installing delrin bushings with new crush sleeves for the front diff left and right mounts.

Time to get this all done!

 

[MTUH3]

Do you have a pick of your broken spring? Mine broke (pass side) right at the bottom of the front eye. So far the materials lab at work says it was fatigue. I am going to assumed high load, low frequency, but they are going to put it under a scope for me and see if they can tell for sure. You are the 3rd 06 with a broken leaf I have heard about in the last year and a half. All off-roaded "regularly."

 

[atvspeed4]

Same exact spot as you on driverside. I had spring shop look at it that's been in business for 40 years. He said that it was due to improper heat treat.

I still haven't fixed it as I'm nervous to use OEM springs. I've only gone offroad three times with this h3.

 

[atvspeed4]

Well this weekend I installed mysterious delrin bushings in the steering rack. That along with the HD tierods and aluminum clamp has made the steering so tight. We also replaced the front diff crossmember bushing with delrin and upon removing the crossmember found the sleeves that the bolts go through had cracked and pulled through the crossmember! So before reinstalling we welded that back together. I also installed new GM leaf packs with new bolts with a healthy coating of antiseize. The cause of the broken leaf was definitely the bolt seizing to the bushing and the bushing rusting to the frame.

Last thing we did was install the daystar bodylift, that was so easy compared to other vehicles it took like 30 minutes and looks great. Today I ordered 5 35" tires and they should be installed thursday afternoon.