10bolt front diff tech

[Schwarttzy]

Wow that sound like so much less work than I though it was going to be.

 

[5gn-h3t]

It's been 30-45 degrees, raining, and dark while I've been under the truck tinkering. And I couldn't be happier. Lol.

 

[5gn-h3t]

A ratchet strap on each side from the diff to the motor mounts makes dropping it by yourself very easy.

 

[4speedfunk]

They're not too bad to swap. Fairly lightweight compared to a full-size iron axle. The empty 10-bolt (with the ends cut-off) weighs more than the loaded AAM-7. Ha!

Speaking of that. Guess what I started today? Did some choppin, grindin, lathin, facin, and quite a bit of hammering. It was a good first day, and the first time I've ever tore a housing apart. I'm taking photos and I'll do a complete build thread on this after we get done.

 

[06 H3]

Awesome!

 

[jakesz28]

This is interesting. I see a lot has been talked about when I was out of the country. Looking forward to seeing this. I would be interested in this if its closer to a bolt in option. I'm ready to improve the weak parts before I break them I plan on taken some trips this year. So driving to Moab is a long hail, I want to make it off the trail and home with out to many broken parts.
Really interested in the the straight axle but that's a lot of cutting. My wife is scared. If you need a test vehicle let me know.

 

[4speedfunk]

Without a doubt...I like the solid axle, and I think it blows away this 10-bolt IFS idea. However...I remain an IFS fan, and I'm playing around with this swap for all the reasons you stated. There needs to be a fairly cheap, simple, reliable, IFS upgrade for those off-roaders that have found and exceeded the limits of the AAM-7. Its not a Dynatrac Pro-Rock...but its not $6000 either! Its a way to improve the H3 and re-gear without spending a fortune. Hopefully this will fill the void between "stock crap" and "full-custom" swaps.

After today...my thoughts on the "back-yard" fix were confirmed. There's a little more to it than just throwin it in there...lots of machining with all sorts of large equipment that I have no idea how to operate! But my crew is top notch and they attacked the project full-throttle today, (and made me feel stupid). I'm feeling pretty good about it but, its definitely something above the normal weekend-warrior type stuff. It can most certainly be INSTALLED in your driveway...but DOING THE HOUSING MODS should be left to the pros.

 

[jakesz28]

Yep, I've been in industrial maintenance since 91. I have worked in a couple full on cnc shops. Its understanding the machines capabilities and be able to do proper setups. I now work on the controls and automation side of stuff.
So after today do you still see this being a good option?


I will be running a full time locker in the rear. I dont see that causing any sensor problems. I would never dream of running a full time locker in the front. The front has to be open most of the time. Especially in the snow. I have done that before on street vehicles. A locker in the front in snow or ice. You better give up now because you will have no steering or control. You are actually forced to only engage one lock out if you have that option. But even then acceleration is a trick and will pull you in the wrong direction.

 

[backcountryislife]

I will be running a full time locker in the rear. I donthave see thata causing any sensorof problems. I would never dream of running a full time locker in the front. The front has to be open most of the time. Especially in the snow. I have done that before on street vehicles. A locker in the front in snow or ice. You better give up now because you will have no steering or control. You are actually forced to only engage one lock out if you have that option. But even then acceleration is a trick and will pull you in the wrong direction.

Agreed about the rear locker, when I was looking into this I talked to people about the sensors... that's a non issue. Abs and traction control are also not an issue... but putting one in the front of a full time awd vehicle sounds like a terrible idea to me. In a rwd truck it's a very different game.


Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[4speedfunk]

Agreed. Sometimes its easy to get all jacked-up about trail mods, that you loose sight of what you're really trying to do. In the case of the H3 I try to focus on making it a better all-around 4x4, and not so much a full-tilt rock crawler. Such is the case with lockers, and its nice to have a highly modified H3 that still works the way its supposed to. I have a very low tolerance for jerry-rigging, and I tend to obsess on details that a lot of guys don't even notice. Things like dash-lights, shimmies, darting, and other odd quirks that a lot of off-roaders (ahem...Jeep guys) put up with...I won't settle for. I think there's a reason the H3 has selectables, and I'm not willing to flirt with changing it...especially since they are available for this diff.

I'm not rippin on Jeep guys. I hang with more of them than Hummer guys and I'm cool with jerry-rigging...just not on my $30,000 Hummer! For example...Here's one of my buddy's rigs:



When I think full-time locker...this is what I picture in my mind. This is one of several Jeeps this guy has, and its actually the best built one he owns! He has another one that uses a piece of clothes-line to hold the clutch pedal up! He runs Lincoln Lockers (welded spiders) on his stuff. He thinks I'm crazy and shakes his head when he works on my Hummer...and I shake my head when I work on his Jeeps (which is every time I stop by). But my wife wouldn't even consider climbing in this turd...and there's no way it would make it even half-way to the mall! Obviously there is a huge range of builds between this CJ and my H3. Even though I respect the wreckless abandonment of all practicality...I like to focus on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Schwarttzy]

I'm getting disappointed seeing all this automatic full locker in the front stuff... because I feel like your all delicately dancing around discrediting what I have said, and I don't like it. While I don't care what people choose, I do however want people to know that the automatic engaging abilities of TrueTrac is a perfectly good option for a daily drivers in the front axle. I should mention that calling the TrueTrac a locker would be completely wrong in all senses of the term. But continuing on... the very reason why I'm choosing the TrueTrac for my Hummer, is because of how well it preforms on the highways, in town, and during snow storms. Note that I would never sacrifice my Hummer's on road manors for better off-road characteristics, I would especially not recommend it to anyone else if it did cause any negative effects while driving on the road. I like pointing out that TrueTrac really shines the brightest during icy or snowy conditions because hands down it is the best option in those conditions because it is pulling, not pushing the vehicle. However my favorite part is that you'll never be able to tell if TrueTrac actually did anything, or if it is even still in side the differential. And just like us, not knowing if the TrueTrac is even there, the Hummer will be even more oblivious to knowing if something is there. I know this all to be true because I put a TrueTrac locker in the front of my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is completely similar to the H3 Hummer, because the only options for the transfer case is four-wheel high, neutral, and four-wheel low.

I really don't like to arguing for something, normally I just state what I believe and try to go my separate way, but the TrueTrac is something so truly amazing that I just have to at least try to argue for it.

 

[backcountryislife]

Well, I didn't think I danced at all. Not about discrediting at all, just disagree.

A truetrack in the front of a Jeep... awesome thing. VERY solid unit, Very suited to that application.
A truetrack in the front of a AWD vehicle... IMO, terrible idea. The torque changes when turning UNDER POWER (AWD will be, unlike a jeep) will make the truetrack fight you imo.

It's a very good unit, I just feel this is an inappropriate application for it.

Now the auto locker in the back I've got no problem with. I've driven a few of them on the street and they're a simple way to accomplish a goal, but the forces when turning are different in front as compared to back in an AWD vehicle.

 

[Schwarttzy]

Now the auto locker in the back I've got no problem with. I've driven a few of them on the street and they're a simple way to accomplish a goal, but the forces when turning are different in front as compared to back in an AWD vehicle.

Are you failing to realize I had a AWD Jeep with a TrueTrac in the front? I drove that Jeep for years. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Schwarttzy]

By the way if you try to discredit my Jeep Grand Cherokee saying that it didn't have AWD, there are three transfer-cases that they could have had in them 231, 242, and 249. I had the 249 nearly the whole time I owned the vehicle, but I got a 242 right before I sold it. The 249 only has the options four wheel drive high, neutral, and four wheel drive low.

 

[06 H3]

On a different note the 242 is a badass case. It offered full time 4wd and 2wd. To break it down its like having our t case with a 2wd option. You can run 4wd on the street if you want to and not have to worry about binding and all that crap like running a typical 2/4wd case on the street in 4wd. I wish we had a case like that.

Run the tructrac and give us your results. Thts the best way to prove your point we can be a tough crowd but how can we gain knowledge without questioning it. Don't take it too personal.

 

[backcountryislife]

Not sure who is trying to discredit anyone?

I stated that I disagreed. I missed the part where you mention that your JGC was AWD. It'll be ok. I had had this conversation with a few people prior to selling the 3 and based on what we had talked about I felt it was a bad idea... guess they were wrong. It'll be alright.

Speaking of binding, I wish the JK had the option for AWD, we drive in the snow a bit here in the mountains, and it would be nice to have a more road friendly 4wd option.

 

[Schwarttzy]

On a different note the 242 is a badass case.

Ya it is, the best part is that I found it in the back of Jeep completely pulled out with the proper slip yokes, all I did was drag it to the counter and buy it, LOL.

 

[Schwarttzy]

Speaking of binding, I wish the JK had the option for AWD, we drive in the snow a bit here in the mountains, and it would be nice to have a more road friendly 4wd option.

With how badass Jeeps are, I wonder why a transfer case like the 242 isn't offered.

 

[4speedfunk]

decafe.

 

[backcountryislife]

So, to those in the know from a parts & labor perspective, what would be your guess for a cost on this now?

Obivously the basic labor would be done by the owner, but the machining, the more technical stuff... any idea on cost? (assuming we provide our own decaf that is )

 

[4speedfunk]

I'm almost done with this first one...I'll know a price by next week. Machine work will be in the $350-$450 range for the housing (minus the stub shaft).

Unfortunately...I tossed or sold most of my IFS stuff when I went SA, and the only thing I have left is a couple AAM-7s. All of my old half-shafts are gone, so I can't really do a test-fit...but, since I'm duplicating the female ends of the AAM-7, I can say with 99% confidence that its all good-to-go. If anybody has a half-shaft lying around (or just the inboard cv), I could use one. I got a CV-shop not far away, and I might be able to see if they have an old one laying around. So at this point I've got a few outstanding issues:

1. The mounting ear on the snout of the diff.
2. The stub shaft for the driver's side.
3. The groove inside the passenger spider gear for the snap-ring.

I'm tempted to weld the mounting ear onto the OTHER side of the snout. This would allow the guy installing it to simply drill a hole thru his crossmember (adjacent to his stock bushing), and run a 6"-long bolt up from the bottom to capture it and clamp it to the crossmember...with a bushing of course. I can't recall if this would be possible with the Rancho crossmember...mine is long gone. The stub shaft will be a chopped & re-splined GM axle shaft...or a completely new piece (4130 cro-mo). The groove is no biggy...just need to decide on a diff. So thats where I'm at. The irony is that I no longer have anything resembling an H3 front suspension to test it on! Perhaps I should go find a roll-over and build a FRANKENSTEIN trail buggy?

 

[06 H3]

Awesome!!! Great work CJ! Once again, I'm impressed, you always do awesome work. As for the rancho kit I can order a new drop crossmember and modify it to work with the new 10 bolt setup. When your ready throw it on a pallet and ship it out ill start putting some money aside so I can buy one when your done.

I've got half shafts laying around if you need one. Might wanna check locally first as the mail here is at a snails pace. If you have no luck locally email me.

 

[4speedfunk]

Can you snap me a photo of one of your half-shafts...specifically the end of the inner CV? Lay a tape up against it and snap me a couple pics that show:

The total length of the input shaft. (around 4" I think)
The shiny spot where the seal rides. (around 1/2" from the shoulder of the CV)
The distance from the tip to the snap ring. (around a 1/2" from the end)



I'll be in the shop again tomorrow, and we'll be finishing up the passenger-side. My concern is that we shave enough of the 10-bolt pumpkin away, to get the H3 shaft inserted completely into the 10-bolt carrier like it should be. The AAM-7 measures 1.6" from the outer edge of the CV-seal to the entrance of the carrier...thats pretty compact. I don't think I can get the new seal that close. I've shaved enough to get around 2.1" but, I'm hesitant to go any deeper (starting to encroach on the front cover gasket surface). I basically need to know how much "fluff" I got on the end of that shaft, and whether or not I can get away with this slightly greater distance.

 

[mkmcgreg]

CJ let me know when you finalize your plans for this weekend and your more than welcome to look at the IFS on mine in return for some expert advise on the knocking I have going on shoot me a pm, I will still bring your favorite cold beverage

 

[06 H3]

alright...uploading the pics now. .5in is a lot when talking when it comes to this. Hopefully you can safely shave another .25in and have .25 inches wiggle room with the shaft.