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GMRS - new Black Sheep standard

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
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10,512
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Scottsdale
I don't really know these radios at all, but I just want one that I can boost to the point that the radio waves will warm up my burrito when I transmit and wave the antenna back and forth across my lunch.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
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3,719
Location
Idaho
I don't really know these radios at all, but I just want one that I can boost to the point that the radio waves will warm up my burrito when I transmit and wave the antenna back and forth across my lunch.

This ought to do, then: https://www.ebay.com/c/14007794779

100 watts of UHF? No thanks! I don't want to be anywhere near the antenna for that radio when it transmits.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
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3,719
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Idaho
Now, I just need LagunaH1 to teach me how to use GMRS.

Happy to help in any way I can. I think you (and everyone else who may be headed down this path) may find, that it's really really simple and easy. The basic concept is the exact same as a walkie talkie, except that these radios have FAR better antennas and FAR more power = much better range

And, since I am wired the way I am: There *is* a licensing requirement from the FCC if you want to operate on GMRS channels. It's a fixed fee and as I recall there is no test involved. Reference: https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/suppor...rces/applying-new-license-universal-licensing
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,427
Location
Way up north, UT
Honestly Alex I would just go with Midland's offerings. Cheaper and preset for the channels used. Those radios you linked are quite a bit more than you would ever need for GMRS/FRS and technically probably aren't legal for it, plus their interface sucks compared to the purpose built GMRS/FRS radios. For the same price as those you can get Midland's high end 40W GMRS mobile (which honestly is kind of overkill, if you really need distance then just move to Ham) and a pair of pretty good handhelds respectively.

I'm actually looking at this one since it has the controls/display on the handheld mic and this is the bundle that has a bit more to it than the radio by itself:
https://midlandusa.com/product/mxt275vp4-micromobile-two-way-radio-bundle

But if you want to spend a little less you can get just the radio, still comes with a basic little mag mount antenna so it's ready to go out of the box:
https://midlandusa.com/product/mxt275-micromobile-two-way-radio/
 
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LagunaH1

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Idaho
I came across this review of the BTech radio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVoTlrqsLuQ

The radio is, as I suspected, made by Baofeng in China, but I like the many features and the wealth of information shown on the screen (TX power, incoming signal strength, microphone modulation)

I have ordered one the mobile radio and am looking forward to installing it
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
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10,512
Location
Scottsdale
They have more lights and buttons than the Midlands. That's pretty much my only prerequisite.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
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3,719
Location
Idaho
Also: Based on the Youtube video, it DOES seem like each button beeps when pressed. Perfection! :-D
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
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1,041
Location
Cabool MO
Based on that video, the Btech seems the way to go. The midland vehicle mount gmrs radios do not transmit on FRS. Midland vehicle mount radios receive FRS only and receive and transmit GMRS.
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,427
Location
Way up north, UT
Probably because FRS regulations dictates a non-removeable antenna in addition to the lower power level. The BTech radios technically are not legal to use on FRS due to power and removable antennas, so I guess the question is which rule do you want to break? The licensing or the equipment rules?
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,427
Location
Way up north, UT
The Btech shown is 90 or 95 legal, so it reduces power on FRS. The baofeng are the non legal variety.

It only reduces power on CH 1-7 that GMRS shares with FRS, those are the 2 watt channels. But I didn't notice it was FCC approved, that is good to know. Most of those chinese radios technically aren't approved but like illegal for the street LED and HID conversions it doesn't stop anyone from selling them nor using them.

Based on that video, the Btech seems the way to go. The midland vehicle mount gmrs radios do not transmit on FRS. Midland vehicle mount radios receive FRS only and receive and transmit GMRS.

The BTECH transmits on the same channels as the Midland. Both are capable of transmitting on the dual use FRS/GMRS channels 1-7. Looking at the specs listed on that Amazon listing the BTECH only transmits on CH 1-7 (2W) and CH 15-22 (50W) (Note, BTECH claims to have channels 15-30 as opposed to 15-22. Most likely they are referring to the 8 additional repeater input channels, but those are supposed to only be used with duplex and not simplex. The Midland has the same additional repeater input channels but doesn't bother listing them as extra channels since they really aren't separate channels you can use by themselves.)

So really aside from the extra 10W on CH 15-22 the transmit is exactly the same. CH 8-14 are FRS only and still limited to 0.5W based on what I could find.

So with either the BTECH or the Midland mounted radios you're getting the same channels so you can go either direction. If you want to talk to someone that has a FRS radio only you are limited to CH 1-7 and 15-22 which are dual use channels, you won't be able to talk to them on CH 8-14 since those are FRS only.

Personally I will prefer the Midland MXT275 that has the handheld controls since I am running out of real estate on my dash what with a CB, Ultragauge, cell phone, switch panel, and eventually the head for my Icom 706MkIIG ham radio. I have some other gauges and control panels I want to add there as well. And I think I want to relocate my trailer brake controller as well so that it's not right at my knee. Maybe I'll just switch to a Redarc brake controller since they have that nice remote mount control knob.
 
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JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,427
Location
Way up north, UT
So to sum up and clarify:

FRS:
Ch 1-7 @ 2 watts
Ch 8-14 @ 0.5 watts (half a watt)
Ch 15-22 @ 2 watts

GMRS:
Ch 1-7 @ 5 watts (didn't notice this before!)
Ch 8-14 @ 0.5 watts
Ch 15-22 @ up to 50 watts


FRS and GMRS both can use channels 1-7 but FRS is limited to 2 watts while GMRS is limited to 5 watts
FRS and GMRS can use channels 8-14 but are both limited to only 0.5 watts
FRS can use channels 15-22 at 2 watts
GMRS can use channels 15-22 at up to 50 watts


FRS radios are only handheld due to the requirement of not having a detachable antenna (changing the antenna can change the effective radiated power which is what the watt limitation actually is for rather than the raw watts going into the antenna from the transmitter).

GMRS is permitted to have a detachable antenna, but to my knowledge properly designed (ie, actually legal and not grey area) handheld GMRS radios still have non-detachable antennas to comply with the requirement for FRS on the low power channels. Hence why the mobile radios don't even include channels 8-14. They could also easily transmit at 0.5 watts but since the antenna can be replaced and increase the effective power they block those channels out to maintain legal compliance.

GMRS requires a license, technically.

So if you don't want to get a license just get the nicer FRS handhelds that can do 2 watts on channels 1-7 and 15-22 but don't expect great range with them from inside a vehicle. It'll probably be OK at the distances we usually maintain with each other on the trails, but if you get separated don't be surprised if you can't reach anyone, especially if you are stuck inside your rig. I would not rely on FRS alone when operating from within a vehicle or doing anything with long distances and lots of obstacles in the way between users.

Or tack on $70 for the GMRS license to be all legal and stuff for 10 years and then get a GMRS mobile for your rig plus some handhelds for walking around with and enjoy the extra power plus much better antennas on both the handhelds and the mobile units. Since the GMRS units can talk on
the same channels as FRS you don't have to worry about who has what when everyone gets together. The FRS users will be able to take some advantage of the GMRS users since the GMRS users can transmit at higher power and with better antennas can receive from a greater distance. So a FRS user can talk at a farther distance with a GMRS user than they could with another FRS user. However two GMRS users can talk to each other at even greater distances still.
 

LagunaH1

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3,719
Location
Idaho
GMRS requires a license, technically.

I want to encourage everyone here to get their GMRS license. it's not expensive and it lasts 10 years (after which you can renew). There is no test required.
 
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jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Location
Cabool MO
If you download the instructions for the Midland GMRS radios, it can not transmit on on ch 8-14. It says reserved for FRS. The btech will transmit on 8-14 at a reduced power.

Maybe I am wrong on the btech. But not sure.
 
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I[OIIIIIIIO]I

Active Member
Messages
43
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Even though it's only $70 for 10 years what is the point of having the licence? Seems like a money grab to me, what am I missing? Didn't CB used to require a licence too?

I have had my GMRS for a few months and as little as I actually use them I don't really see the need to get a license. I understand why someone would need a Ham licence but don't see the reasoning for these they aren't that powerful.
 

LagunaH1

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3,719
Location
Idaho
I[OIIIIIIIO]I;241817 said:
Even though it's only $70 for 10 years what is the point of having the licence? Seems like a money grab to me, what am I missing? Didn't CB used to require a licence too?

I have had my GMRS for a few months and as little as I actually use them I don't really see the need to get a license. I understand why someone would need a Ham licence but don't see the reasoning for these they aren't that powerful.

It's a legal requirement, much like having a license plate on your car.

The whole purpose of requiring licenses, is to make the stations identify themselves regularly in order to encourage and enforce co-use of the shared resource which the GMRS channels are. 50 watts on UHF is a LOT of power. That level of power will travel far as long as it's not obstructed. The more power, and the further the signal will propagate, the greater the need for rules to govern the use, in order to make everyone get along and use the shared space responsibly.

This is also why FRS does not require a license: The signal is MUCH weaker, and the antennas are smaller so the net result is far, far less propagation, less chance of interference and less need to govern the use. In other words: The greater the potential range of a radio, the greater the chances are of (unintentionally) interfering with someone else, and therefore the greater the need for a set of rules to make it more likely that people can coexist.

Keep in mind that with GMRS you are allowed to use GMRS repeaters. These are typically (just like HAM repeater) on mountain tops or other elevated location for the best possible range of the repeater. These repeaters are owned by other, licensed, GMRS operators who will most likely not look kindly on unlicensed use of their repeater. The potential range of a GMRS repeater is huge: There are repeaters here in Orange county which can be heard all over the greater Los Angles basin due to their location on mountain tops.
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,512
Location
Scottsdale
Got the Btech GMRS-50X1 installed today. It's not tested yet as I'm waiting on a UHF SWR meter even though the antenna is "pre-tuned". I'd rather wait a day vs. blowing out my new radio with a bad ground, crimped wire, etc. Hopefully that's in tomorrow. Only took a few minutes to put in, replacing my CB power and antenna with the new ones.
20210420_130245-L.jpg
 
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