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Radio?????

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
Hi Gents

I like to do my homework well before buying anything, so, any surgestions for radios and accessories?:)
 

M22KLARS

Unsafe At Any Speed
Messages
2,315
Location
Minnesota
Also... If you're talking am/fm radio what do you need it to do? Radio, CD, MP3, Navigation, DVD, etc..??
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
Thanks allot and sorry, my bad. 2 way radio. I read some of your mods and saw you gents are using firestick's antennas, Willson radio's ext........ I am really struggling to get some of the equipment you are using in South Africa. Thinking of importing some equipment.......? Will see.
 

HUMMER INVESTMENTS

[o O IIIIIIII O o]
Messages
3,518
Location
Black Hawk, SD
A good CB is IMO a Cobro with a firestick antenna. I used to have a 102" wip antenna on the roof, but that no longer is on due to the radio not having enough output, so I switched to the 4 ft. Firestick II
 

HUMMER INVESTMENTS

[o O IIIIIIII O o]
Messages
3,518
Location
Black Hawk, SD
I would also go with the no ground plane, so you don't have to mess around with grounding the antenna, and possibly ruining your radio. My is running fine, I just dont get the range I could have if I would ground it.
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
Thanks allot for the info. It really helps. I know alot of things but wiring and electronics is not one of them. Used to blow thing up at University.
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,442
Location
Scottsdale
I did not have good luck with a NGP antenna. I ran one on the H3 for a while and switched back to a traditional setup. Getting an ground on the H3 is not an issue; I believe it's much harder to ground an antenna on the H1.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,703
Location
Lake Forest, CA
Maybe this thread should be moved to the HAM section?

Anyways: What do you want to do with a radio? Have you researched what your country's rules and regulations say? -I ask because in some countries the frequencies used for CB radios here in the US are assigned for other purposes thus making American CB radios illegal to operate. You may find that you have very different (sometimes that's a very good thing) options. Also look into whether you are required to obtain a license. I think that might be the case for SA based on a couple quick google searches.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,584
Location
Indianapolis, IN
If you want a cheap cb that works as both a mobile and in truck unit, i will suggest the midland 75-822. I have it and it has worked very well for me.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
Maybe this thread should be moved to the HAM section?

Anyways: What do you want to do with a radio? Have you researched what your country's rules and regulations say? -I ask because in some countries the frequencies used for CB radios here in the US are assigned for other purposes thus making American CB radios illegal to operate. You may find that you have very different (sometimes that's a very good thing) options. Also look into whether you are required to obtain a license. I think that might be the case for SA based on a couple quick google searches.

Thanks man. I am busy with my "research" at the moment. Yes, in some cases you must have a license. Here, RSA (South Africa), we use VHF or UHF radios. You need to obtain n license and then only certian frequancies will be give to you. On the other hand, if you join a 4x4 club, you can pay "rent" your license from them and they give you, and sets up, your frequancies. This will include emergencies, an so on. (Thats what was told to me today by a Communications company here). You also get some after sales support if anything get damamged on your equipment. Antoher way will be CB radios. I can order them and then have to install it myself. If it breaks, you need to by a new one. No after sales support.

Thats what I'm being told currently. What I want is a radio which we can talk to each other whilst going wheeling. The current stuff only receives up to +/-100m on the open road and with allot of static. So, thanks alot for the info and I am still busy with my "research". Didn't think I am going to have such a hard time to get this sorted but I really appreciate your support.
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
Some of the latest info:

LICENSING:

For normal 4x4 use, one is able to join a Club that is affiliated to ORRA (Off Road Radio Association). ORRA has been tasked by the AAWDC (Association of All-Wheel Drive Clubs) to provide country-wide radio licences to its member Clubs and therefore directly to the members of those Clubs. By working through ORRA, the radio user is able to obtain a radio licence essentially in a matter of days, instead of applying directly to ICASA for a private frequency which is a lengthy and expensive process. In this latter case, you will only be granted a radio licence for use within your own immediate geographical area, usually limited to no more than 50km radius of your place of residence. Obtaining your licence through ORRA permits you to use the various frequencies issued by ORRA anywhere within the borders of RSA.


WHAT TYPE OF RADIO DO I CHOOSE - 29MHz AM or VHF/ FM?

Currently, there are two main modes of radio communications available to members of ORRA. The first one comprises the older 29MHz AM type radio, while the newer technology VHF/FM radio is an alternative choice. In days gone by, 29MHz radios were freely available and their pricing was extremely competitive, therefore they were widely used for short-distance communications. As the years passed by however, many Manufacturers of these radios dropped the 29MHz AM models which were uneconomical to manufacture in the relatively small quantities that were sold worldwide and concentrated more on the VHF/FM radios that were selling in considerable quantities world-wide.

:gaah:
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
29MHz AM RADIOS:
The virtues of 29MHz AM radios are many – they are relatively cheap and many Clubs and 4x4 drivers make use of them. They are priced at around R1100 – R1800 excluding antenna & installation. Their reliable operating range is anything from about three to five kilometres or thereabouts, but this varies greatly with weather conditions and time of day, as well as area of operation and motor vehicle suppression. AM radios are susceptible to engine and atmospheric disturbances, resulting in a crackling sound when such disturbances are present. Adjusting the radio’s squelch control can help eliminate these disturbances but this also has the effect of reducing operating range. The radios are fairly low-power units operating at around 4 – 5 Watts RF.


Antenna location is critical with a 29MHz AM radio and a permanent mount is to be preferred over a magnetic mount. Ideally the antenna should be mounted in the middle of a large expanse of metal, such as the roof of a double-cab. This might not always be convenient, and mounting the antenna elsewhere could result in directional RF radiation. A good compromise would be obtained by mounting the antenna as high as practicable on either the “B” or “C” pillar of a vehicle, ensuring that the steel whip and spring does not come intro contact with any other metal work.
 

ZachH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
57
Location
South Africa
VHF/FM RADIOS:
This type of radio has been professionally in use for many years world-wide and is supported by all Manufacturers of two-way radios. These radios are typically high-powered but in South Africa the power limit is restricted to 25W for Commercial use. This is, however, completely adequate for good radio communications between two or more users.


For our ORRA purposes the radios operate on VHF, which is a range of frequencies within the 146 - 174MHz band. VHF radios offer excellent communication range, anywhere from about 15 - 30Km between mobile units but dependent uponsurrounding terrain. They are powered at 25 watt RF output and are immune to interference caused by atmospheric or electrical conditions. All VHF radios require an appropriate ICASA licence, or, in our case, an ORRA licence.

The same rules for AM antennas apply to the FM antennas as well. However, there are two common types available:

* Quarter Wave Antenna, which should once more be mounted in a central position on a metal surface or on the B or C pillars of a vehicle. The antenna whip is only some 400mm or so in length. This is the currently preferred antenna for ORRA purposes because of the fairly wide spread in the current ORRA frequencies. Quarter-wave antennas are a good choice in hilly terrain.

* 5/8 Antenna, normally, suitable for B or C pillar mounting but can work on a bull bar. This type of antenna will produce good results when used either for a single frequency or a group of frequencies clustered in close proximity to one another. Not suitable for frequencies that are spread far apart from one another.

:huh::gaah:


So.................................................. any comments???????????????????
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
Here in the US, CB radios operate below the amateur 10m band. It sounds like in SA, their CB band is just above the 10m amateur band. Otherwise, they are basically the same. This is what most recreational wheelers in the US use because they are cheap and no license is needed.

In North America, FRS (family radio service) is in the UHF spectrum (roughly 450MHz) and coexists with GMRS (general purpose mobile radio service). FRS is limited in power to something like 300 milliwats, while GMRS can go to 50 watts or so (I think). FRS is like CB - no license required. GMRS requires a license, although many use it without and it doesn't seem as though the FCC enforces it much, if at all. There is also a CB-like band in the 150MHz VHF range called MURS, which allows a couple watts. It isn't well knows, so few people use it. Anyway, I am guessing your VHF/UHF allocations in your country are similar.

Since your CB is similar to ours, and your VHF/UHF services are probably similar to our FRS/GMRS and MURS, I can make a few observations: CB's are cheap, but have poor local propagation since most of the power is radiated as a sky wave rather than a ground wave (I won't go into a lecture on RF propagation vs frequency - just take my word on it ;)). During favorable solar activity you can be deaf to someone transmitting 10 miles away, but hear skip from someone 500 miles away. This is why HF (frequencies below 50MHz or so) are used for long range terrestrial communication - they don't waste power transmitting a strong ground wave, and the low frequencies allow the sky wave to reflect off the ionosphere and the earths surface. It is possible under the right conditions to transmit a tone burst and receive it several milliseconds later after it has travelled around the earth. However, these same qualities make it less than optimal for local (i.e. less than 50 miles) communications. Sound quality is variable, and can easily end up sounding like two soup cans connected by a piece of string.In addition, due to limited bandwidth, transmissions are generally AM, which is more susceptible to noise and interference. Also, antenna length is inversely proportional to frequency (proportional to wavelength), so a longer antenna is needed.

VHF and UHF are more line-of-sight. VHF can propagate somewhat beyond the horizon, while the 450MHz spectrum is more strictly line-of-sight. These radios are typically FM rather than AM, and audio quality is typically superior to modern digital cell phones. Since the power is radiated more perpendicular to the antenna (parallel to the ground for a typical vertical antenna), the radiated power is sent to your nearby friends rather than uselessly toward the sky. You also avoid interference from people skipping in from hundreds of miles away. Antennas are shorter, or for a similar length antenna you get much higher efficiency. These radios are usually built on commercial platforms, so they have high quality circuitry with excellent performance. Pretty much, if you can convince everyone to go this route you will enjoy your comms so much more.

Amateur radio is basically the same world-wide as far as frequency allocations go, at least in the HF spectrum. Licensing is up to the regulatory body in your country. Amateur radios obey the same physics as any other radio, so for trail comms a VHF or UHF FM rig is the best bet. Unfortunately, this requires everyone to have an amateur license, and the equipment is more expensive than the cheap CB radios. IMO, whether amateur VHF/UHF or commercial VHF/UHF, it's worth it compared to HF CB if you can get everyone on board. Better fidelity and better range.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,703
Location
Lake Forest, CA
MaxPF basically said it all. I'd vote for a VHF radio (probably FM on VHF frequencies) with a good antenna. 25 watts is indeed plenty to talk to anything you can see, and that's the rule of thumb of VHF / UHF: It's line of sight. If you can see it (or, if there's nothing but air between 2 stations) then you can talk to it.

One thing that I don't think was touched on yet is the mode you use. AM or FM is the signal "encoding" (and I use that term very loosely) that the radio uses. FM is generally much higher audio quality than AM and is pretty close to immune to interference (you can have interference on all modes, depending on the strength of the interfering signal)

So: I'd get a good VHF antenna, install it in as good a location as possible on your truck and then get a good VHF radio. I'd chose VHF because it propagates a little bit better than UHF. However: if UHF happens to be used more than VHF by the people you want to talk to, then go with UHF.
 
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