H3 won't start as if not getting fuel

traski · Jul 9, 2018

Have a 2008 H3 alpha approx 80k miles. It cranks but won't start. Battery good. It seems to be lacking fuel delivery.
Replaced I believe fuse 66 to no avail
Tried locking doors and waiting 10 min, 30 min, 1 hr for security bypass problem I read online. No success
However started the next day so I took to a reputable GMC/Buick garage/dealer
They got some error code & replaced entire fuse box to the tune of $750
Worked for a few days, then same thing
Tried starting for next 3 days without success and had to have towed back to garage
This time said had power to fuel pump but it was only firing intermittently so they replaced the fuel pump...another $1250
2 days later, same thing and another tow back to the garage
Visit 3.. they are now saying there is no power to fuel pump (although it supposedly had power a few days before) & will let me know today what the diagnoses is. Did state the ignition seems to be fine

A little background. I am female & certainly do not have a background in mechanics. I had caught the service rep in a lie on visit #2 so I lost a bit of trust. Obviously, I am quite ticked off spending 2k and continuing to have the same problem

Couple questions:
Anyone have any suggestions of what the problem may be? Perhaps I need to tell them what to check based on your expertise.
Is this normal for a service place to do a trial & error diagnoses? and continue to charge despite not fixing the problem?...I feel I am getting ripped off at this point. Oh, they did arrange & pay for towing for visit 3

Thank you for any feedback
Traci

amrg · Jul 9, 2018

Well first I would avoid that garage as they seem to be ripping you off, hoping you keep paying and paying amd they are not really fixing the problem!

Do you have a fuel pressure reading with ignition in the ON position but without starting the car? You should read somewhere around 40 to 60 psi. If you have an obd2 reader you can get that reading.

A bad fuel pump will just die and the truck wont start period. You wont get any fuel pressure reading whatsover.

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alrock · Jul 9, 2018

I wonder what led them to think the fuse box needed to be replaced. That's an odd repair. Can you find out the codes that they saw that led to that diagnosis? If there's an electrical gremlin, I would like to frayed/chewed wires especially since you had it start one time since, and it presumably ran fine that time you took it to the dealer.

Is there an aftermarket security system on the H3?

traski · Jul 10, 2018

I got it back yesterday. So far, so good. They repaired 2 wires located between the fuse box & battery. Stated a rodent chewed through them. Of course, according to them, this occurred after the first visit. I suspect this was the problem all along and they were just milking me for money.
I'm not sure of the code they received for the fuse box. However, a few of my electronics such as the back up mirror & GPS were a little wacky at times along with motorized noises coming from glove compartment area. That seemed to fix those issues. However, that is not why I took the vehicle in.

amrg · Jul 10, 2018

The motorized noise from the glove box could be the ac blower. Anyway, electronic grimlins are always hard to diagnose esp when you dont have good enuff techs

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SlcHummer · Jul 10, 2018

So your H3 start issue have not been fixed? I know you tested the security bypass issue but when the H3 doesn't start do you see the security/lock symbol flashing? If so I wonder if your ignition switch is slowly going out and only working on occasion. I had to replace my ignition switch last year for this same issue which was progressively getting worse and occurring every 2-3 months. The final straw was when I decided to make a quick run to the liquor store (Utah thing) after the 3rd quarter of a Utah Jazz game...lets just say I got stuck listening to the game in my damn truck

.

Happy Hummer · Jul 10, 2018

This is always unfortunate when electrical problems happen. A technician which is trained and well observant will usually use tools of the trade to diagnose (in writing) and then repair. If the repair does not solve the original problem will continue to the next logical item on the list.

Unfortunately we were not present at the repair shop so non of us are going to be able to arm chair qt. this stuff. It's a bastard sometimes to find the problem on these vehicles that have so much electronics in them.

On my Jeep Cherokee I worked for what seemed hours to track down an intermittent electrical issue with the passenger rear door and after allot of testing and head scratching (I mean a lot) finally discovered the oem harness had rotted internally and had to replace several feet. That was but one of countless times I've run into weird situations.
If it is working a week or month from now you'll be grateful as heck lol! The repair shop will be a distance memory.

Good luck.

amrg · Jul 11, 2018

Ive had my fair share of electrical issues on my truck and what I noticed was that if you follow the service manual you usually start by identifying the code, checking the related sensors for damage or out of range, checking the wiring for continuity, checking the mechanical parts if they work, and then finally you start with the expensive stuff such as fuse boxes/pcm/bcm/tcm.
Ive had a similar problem where the experienced tech pointed out my fuel pump needed changing, when I rejected, he blamed the Fuel pump module, and i rejected again, then it was the pcm which I also rejected. Eventually it turned out to be a broken wire between the FPM and the PCM...

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Mr_Rich · Jul 11, 2018

traski said:
I got it back yesterday. So far, so good. They repaired 2 wires located between the fuse box & battery. Stated a rodent chewed through them. Of course, according to them, this occurred after the first visit. I suspect this was the problem all along and they were just milking me for money.
I'm not sure of the code they received for the fuse box. However, a few of my electronics such as the back up mirror & GPS were a little wacky at times along with motorized noises coming from glove compartment area. That seemed to fix those issues. However, that is not why I took the vehicle in.

I think electronics are not understood by the majority of anyone who works on autos. Throw in rodent damage which is very real and unexpected and you wind up with the situation you found yourself with. I live on the edge of farm country and I find little footprints in the dust underhood of both of my trucks even when they're parked in the neighborhood. My brother-in-law was telling me he found out that the insulation on our electrical wiring is soy-based and it makes a tasty (?) meal for rodents. If you leave your vehicle sitting too long in one spot sometimes the rodents can create havoc. Years ago my Mom was visiting friends up in Northern California in the redwoods and some kind of rodent gnawed on her spark plug wires which were silicone rubber. Made a real mess and I remember having to replace them.

JPaul · Jul 11, 2018

Threadjack...

SlcHummer said:
... The final straw was when I decided to make a quick run to the liquor store (Utah thing) ...

Not really, actually. New Hampshire for example has state liquor stores for buying anything other than wine and beer (Which is why when I moved to Colorado before coming to Utah I thought it was really weird there weren't state liquor stores). Over a quarter of the other states do this as well or maintain a monopoly over distribution or something similar.

End Threadjack...

RamRod · Jul 11, 2018

mdocod · Jul 12, 2018

Every mechanic should be required to watch the youtube channel: Schrodingers Box

At least a half dozen episodes. A good mechanic in 2018 should be scientifically proving where the problem is before throwing parts at the problem.

Traxx · Jul 12, 2018

Intermittent problems are among the worst repairs to deal with, 90% of the time there is no problem when a customer brings in their vehicle with a complaint and they expect a shop to spend 12 hours attempting to replicate a complaint, aka my car makes a funny noise at 60mph but only on sundays, when turning left, when its 87 degrees out, and not charge diagnostic time and expect they can just plug their car it into "The Machine" which then of course instantly identifies the problem and a giant glowing arrow descends form the heavens to point at what part to replace or repair.

Rodents suck. They like wiring, insulation and just generally like to screw with everything. Keep in mind this isn't 1972 when you car had about 12 wires. Shorts and breaks were easy to identify and repair, Now you have a computer for every system, relays, and literally miles of wire to deal with. It's not as simple to diagnose an intermittent wire fault as the armchair mechanic might think. Attempting to explain to a customer why you have to disassemble 3/4 of their interior to chase a wire issue and that you don't work for free is always fun.

Mr_Rich · Jul 12, 2018

Traxx said:
Intermittent problems are among the worst repairs to deal with, 90% of the time there is no problem when a customer brings in their vehicle with a complaint and they expect a shop to spend 12 hours attempting to replicate a complaint, aka my car makes a funny noise at 60mph but only on sundays, when turning left, when its 87 degrees out, and not charge diagnostic time and expect they can just plug their car it into "The Machine" which then of course instantly identifies the problem and a giant glowing arrow descends form the heavens to point at what part to replace or repair.

Rodents suck. They like wiring, insulation and just generally like to screw with everything. Keep in mind this isn't 1972 when you car had about 12 wires. Shorts and breaks were easy to identify and repair, Now you have a computer for every system, relays, and literally miles of wire to deal with. It's not as simple to diagnose an intermittent wire fault as the armchair mechanic might think. Attempting to explain to a customer why you have to disassemble 3/4 of their interior to chase a wire issue and that you don't work for free is always fun.

You said it! When I read about certain Japanese car companies multiplexing circuits via PCM on one conductor I thought, "Oh great!" That definitely took repairs away from any shade tree or home mechanic and required costly test equipment that only dealers would be using. Auto electronics have changed in a BIG way from classic car eras and I remember that time well.

crwalkerasla · Jul 13, 2018

The very 1st day after I got my H3, I went and got in it & it wouldn't start. (Bad Omen) After a lot of frustration, banging on the steering wheel & shifting between N and P to try it, it fired up and I was off to work. I took it to the Chevy dealer to get another key, & had the door locks programmed, and it did it again in their shop. Wound up replacing the ignition switch. Haven't had another issue with that since.

mdocod · Jul 14, 2018

I would like to refute this "it's not 1972 anymore" attitude that is effectively making excuses for mechanics who haven't kept up with technology.

In modern cars, the computers and modules in the car are constantly logging information about what is going on.

and expect they can just plug their car it into "The Machine" which then of course instantly identifies the problem and a giant glowing arrow descends form the heavens to point at what part to replace or repair.

The "machine" spits out information about what the computer is doing, or trying to do, or measuring, or what communication and control data is being sent where and whether it is communicating successfully. It is the mechanics job to understand what to do with this information, using it like a roadmap to lead to a set of testable hypothesis about what is causing the problem.

If the mechanic isn't hooking up a laptop to your car and pulling communication errors, looking at voltages, and attempting to re-create the problem while the laptop is monitoring all modules and circuits that could be related to the problem, then take it somewhere else.

If the mechanic is tearing your car apart to find a wiring problem that may or may not be there, take it somewhere else; there are more intelligent ways to determine which wires may be a problem.

It's not 1972 anymore, we don't even have to get our hands dirty to diagnose many problems on cars, but we DO have to use our minds.

One of the frustrating things about this, is that, the current "industry" for car repair, operates on the premise that it is more profitable to play the "throw parts at it" game with the customer. They will usually be very careful about how they tell the customer what is going on. "Based on our experience/knowledge, this part swap has a high likelihood of solving the problem but we can't guarantee anything, would you like to proceed with this?" They will carefully transfer the liability for success/failure to the customer. The part swap, will typically pay at least 1-2 hours labor plus the markup on the part. The customers money would have been better spent on 2 hours of diagnostic work but sadly, they exhausted their entire diagnostic capability on the dart board of guesswork in the first 5 minutes.

amrg · Jul 14, 2018

I am not a mechanic and for sure not very well involved in electrical stuff, but in my specific case, I realized where my problem was when then electrician/mechanic couldnt, and rhat was when I plugged in my obd2 adapter and logged all fuel related sensors using the torque app on my android phone. Then I realized my fuel rail pressure was pegged to some random low number (7.23.... psi).
Now obviously no way my fuel pump is supplying such pressure the entire time my truck was running and thats when I pointed out were the problem was and thats how a months long ordeal was done.

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Traxx · Jul 14, 2018

You should try the manufacturer diagnostic tech challenges, you obviously know more than anyone else, may as well get the rewards for it. Of course you would have to be able to diagnose and repair 6-10 problems in 4 hours that the engineers rigged on one of their vehicles just for smart guys like you. Probably easier and less embarrassing to just keep typing like you already know everything though.

mdocod said:
I would like to refute this "it's not 1972 anymore" attitude that is effectively making excuses for mechanics who haven't kept up with technology.

In modern cars, the computers and modules in the car are constantly logging information about what is going on.

The "machine" spits out information about what the computer is doing, or trying to do, or measuring, or what communication and control data is being sent where and whether it is communicating successfully. It is the mechanics job to understand what to do with this information, using it like a roadmap to lead to a set of testable hypothesis about what is causing the problem.

If the mechanic isn't hooking up a laptop to your car and pulling communication errors, looking at voltages, and attempting to re-create the problem while the laptop is monitoring all modules and circuits that could be related to the problem, then take it somewhere else.

If the mechanic is tearing your car apart to find a wiring problem that may or may not be there, take it somewhere else; there are more intelligent ways to determine which wires may be a problem.

It's not 1972 anymore, we don't even have to get our hands dirty to diagnose many problems on cars, but we DO have to use our minds.

One of the frustrating things about this, is that, the current "industry" for car repair, operates on the premise that it is more profitable to play the "throw parts at it" game with the customer. They will usually be very careful about how they tell the customer what is going on. "Based on our experience/knowledge, this part swap has a high likelihood of solving the problem but we can't guarantee anything, would you like to proceed with this?" They will carefully transfer the liability for success/failure to the customer. The part swap, will typically pay at least 1-2 hours labor plus the markup on the part. The customers money would have been better spent on 2 hours of diagnostic work but sadly, they exhausted their entire diagnostic capability on the dart board of guesswork in the first 5 minutes.

Mr_Rich · Jul 14, 2018

mdocod said:
It's not 1972 anymore, we don't even have to get our hands dirty to diagnose many problems on cars, but we DO have to use our minds.

One of the frustrating things about this, is that, the current "industry" for car repair, operates on the premise that it is more profitable to play the "throw parts at it" game with the customer. They will usually be very careful about how they tell the customer what is going on. "Based on our experience/knowledge, this part swap has a high likelihood of solving the problem but we can't guarantee anything, would you like to proceed with this?" They will carefully transfer the liability for success/failure to the customer. The part swap, will typically pay at least 1-2 hours labor plus the markup on the part. The customers money would have been better spent on 2 hours of diagnostic work but sadly, they exhausted their entire diagnostic capability on the dart board of guesswork in the first 5 minutes.

The thing is; I've been around a long time and I've learned that people's minds don't operate like this. Some people just can't picture things in their minds. I tried to explain stuff to my ex-GF like this and she just put a wall up and it became useless to explain further. Carrying this idea over to electronics I had thirty years in telecommunications. In the early days we had mechanical switching and you could see what's happening and physically do call traces through the office. When electronic switching came in to being we had to learn a new concept, "virtual paths". You can't see what the computer is doing so you have to picture in your mind what's going on. And a lot of people just don't get it and their minds don't operate that way. So it's like anything relating to service these days; try to get referrals regarding specific repairs needed on your vehicle. Go where the best talent is and in my opinion it's not necessarily a dealer.

blazed16 · Aug 14, 2018

I just had a similar no start just cranking on a 40C day and after 15 minutes i tried again and it cranks i took key out and in again and it fired up as if nothing was the problem.
These damn gremlins on these h3's lol.

powerlifter · Aug 23, 2018

It really sounds a LOT like the passlock. The entire ignition does not need to be replaced, just the module on the end of it. 40 bucks. Worth a shot.

ABENTON89 · Nov 12, 2018

Same issue when I bought mine. replaced the black end on the ignition switch housing (buy the whole thing for $45 on Amazon) and boom. it's been going 5 months strong so far. Not a single issue.

H3 won't start as if not getting fuel

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