Crazy Time in America!

[Jeff V.]

Unfortunately most people are ignorant as to what is going on around them and take everything they are told as the truth without questioning anything even when it defies logic.


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We still live in a country where criminal punishment requires hard evidence of wrong doing.

Trump had 4 years as president, with the full resources of the federal government, to investigate and prove his claim that 3 million illegal votes cost him the popular vote victory. In 4 years he couldn't unearth one shred of tangible evidence exposing this grand conspiracy against our democracy.

Now we're supposed to believe this same all-powerful conspiracy is simultaneously stealing the presidency, but couldn't flip the senate, and lost seats in the house. They're powerful and competent enough to steal the presidency, but not powerful or competent enough to steal congress? Which is it?

There has never been an investigation showing voter fraud successfully swinging regional or state level elections, let alone national ones.

I question everything going on around me. Right now, that question is, where is the proof?

Anyone guilty of this should be shot for treason. But you can't do that without evidence.

Where is it?

[MilamJR]

We still live in a country where criminal punishment requires hard evidence of wrong doing.

Trump had 4 years as president, with the full resources of the federal government, to investigate and prove his claim that 3 million illegal votes cost him the popular vote victory. In 4 years he couldn't unearth one shred of tangible evidence exposing this grand conspiracy against our democracy.

Now we're supposed to believe this same all-powerful conspiracy is simultaneously stealing the presidency, but couldn't flip the senate, and lost seats in the house. They're powerful and competent enough to steal the presidency, but not powerful or competent enough to steal congress? Which is it?

There has never been an investigation showing voter fraud successfully swinging regional or state level elections, let alone national ones.

I question everything going on around me. Right now, that question is, where is the proof?

Anyone guilty of this should be shot for treason. But you can't do that without evidence.

Where is it?

Not sure what you are talking about on the popular vote. That is not how we elect the President.

I agree that fraud is going to have to be proven. Maybe it can be proven maybe it can’t. But the way that certain states and cities have handled this election hurts the eventual winner because it shakes the confidence of everyone that has been watching it. For example for either candidate to get 100K+ straight votes in one state has to be a statistical outlier of Biblical proportions or something was terribly wrong here.

Most every state was able to count their votes and report them Tuesday night. This at best an embarrassment to our country or people needed to determine how each precinct voted so they knew where they could place fraudulent votes to steal an election. I hope it is incompetence so it can get fixed like Florida after the 2000 election if that is not the case people need to go to jail. The American people need to know what happened and why so we can all have faith in our elections.


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[Jeff V.]

I know we don't elect a president by popular vote. My only point with that was Trump claiming widespread fraud on the order of 3 million illegal votes, but that was never proven. That level of fraud should have been investigated and exposed, regardless of whether it swung the election or not. But it wasn't. Now we're right back where we were in 2016 with people screaming about fraud, while having no evidence. Suspicions and feelings aren't enough. Either the perpetrators are just so good they can't be caught...or there's no evidence because didn't happen to begin with.

If you're going to make claims undermining the integrity of our elections, then you need to have proof. This isn't a red or blue issue. It's an American issue. This is literally the foundation of our democracy, and if you're going to call it into question, you should have rock solid proof.

As far as the counting deadlines, that's because each state runs its own elections, and has its own rules for absentee ballots. That's why Nevada is still dragging out. They accept ballots postmarked by Nov 3, so it takes a few days for those to get to the counting centers. This isn't an embarrassment. It's the system working the way it's supposed to in an unprecedented time.

Fraud on this scale would require thousands of conspirators. Anyone hyper-competent enough to keep that quiet and pull it off would have flipped congress while they were at it, and they have built in a better margin than a thousand votes in Georgia.

[MilamJR]

I agree that having confidence in our election is the foundation of our Republic.

The only way people are going to be confident is if all the things that look shady are honestly investigated and either proven or disproven like the guy pulling the wagon into where they were counting the votes. Turns out that there was a perfectly good explanation. This helps build trust at a time when trust is very low.

There is undercover video of postal workers discussing providing undelivered ballots to people. Is this real? Did it happen? If so what was the impact? Needs to be fully investigated.

Another postal worker is claiming that they were instructed by a supervisor to back date post marks on late ballots. Is it true or not?These claims erode confidence.

Why will the people running the vote counting in Philly not allow Republicans to monitor the process? The law says that they have a right to be there so both sides will walk away feeling the election was fair. They went to court and a judge issued an order instructing them to let Republicans in which they refused to comply with. If they are not trying to hide something they certainly are making it look like it. Further eroding trust.

Is your position that unless you can prove something illegal happened these things should not be investigated? If so there wouldn’t be a need to ever investigate anything because you could already prove it.


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[Jeff V.]

I'm absolutely saying there needs to be investigations. There needs to be a billion watt spotlight put on this stuff. But you can't say things like "look at all the fraud" and "how are these people not in jail" until those investigations have been completed. There's also a really big gap to cross between isolated incidents of people doing stupid or malicious things, and "the Democrats have stolen the election".

It's not even isolated to this election. People have been claiming for years that widespread voter fraud is occurring and changing the results of the elections. But somehow they never, ever come up with proof of it. It's only ever isolated incidents that are usually due to incompetence rather than malice, and have zero impact on the outcome.

Based on this piss poor track record, I'm not seeing a reason to believe even grander accusations now. You can't claim to respect democracy and the integrity of the vote while simultaneously making baseless claims about how corrupt it is.

I want this thoroughly investigated. I want this to end, one way or the other. Either with convictions and prison sentences, or people accepting that it's just not happening to begin with.

But I may as well wish for Santa to air drop me a Humvee for Christmas. It's got about as much chance of happening as getting a deeply divided nation to shake hands and resolve our differences.

[MilamJR]

I certainly hope we will all find out what is true and not true so we can try to come back together.

But until we know what the truth is Philly doesn’t have a reputation for voter fraud for no reason. Below is a recent example.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...y-charges.html


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[deserth3]

I certainly hope we will all find out what is true and not true so we can try to come back together.

But until we know what the truth is Philly doesn’t have a reputation for voter fraud for no reason. Below is a recent example.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...y-charges.html


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I was watching the news this morning and they had an Philly official on calling Trump a racist because of the voter fraud charges. I tuned him out at Racist and turned the channel.

[deserth3]

Looks like Biden will claim victory tonight.

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[MilamJR]

Already has on Twitter.


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[3Hummers]

The media does not certify election results. Proof of voter fraud in the 2016 election...easy, look at all of the Democratically controlled counties that reported vote totals in excess of the registered voters in the jurisdiction. You don't have to go to court to show that fraud was involved or be a legal eagle to see it. Now proving exactly who perpetrated required the investigation and court cases.

[MilamJR]

There are now reports of a software “glitch” confirmed in one PA county that changed 6,000 votes from Red to Blue and flipped the county Blue. 40+ other counties in PA use these same machines and software. Plus so do other states. America needs to figure out the total impact of this so that confidence can be restored.


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[Jeff V.]

The media does not certify election results. Proof of voter fraud in the 2016 election...easy, look at all of the Democratically controlled counties that reported vote totals in excess of the registered voters in the jurisdiction. You don't have to go to court to show that fraud was involved or be a legal eagle to see it. Now proving exactly who perpetrated required the investigation and court cases.

About that...

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-cast-registe/

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...voter-turnout/

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...in-los-angeles

[3Hummers]

I referenced the 2016 election. You tagged 2020 articles about 3 specific locales.

[Jeff V.]

Silly me for trying to discuss current events.

I'm sure the proof will turn up any day now. With so much blatant, rampant fraud, it should be a piece of cake to prove.

Biden is gonna be so screwed. Him and Hillary can have adjoining cells.

Yep.

It's coming. So, so screwed.

Aaaaany day now.

[3Hummers]

I didn't say it would be easy to convict anyone. I also think that enough screwy things happened in enough places that there was some organization to this mess. If there was organization they likely had a plan to hide their efforts. ( beyond putting up cardboard on the windows so no one could see what they were doing or moving the equipment to a location no one could observe them from. There are starting to be lots of affadavits from people that saw fraudulent activity. Who knows where this winds up. Gore didn't concede until December 12. Lets let Trump run his traps and see what develops. When large chunks of votes come in for one candidate and none for another that is statistically improbable., When people throw vote counters and poll watchers out of areas they are legally allowed to be so they can work unobserved that likely means they don't want you to see what they are doing, when they ignore court orders to allow vote/poll watchers to observe the process that would generally mean something they don't want to get caught at is about to happen, when they stop counting the votes for no reason and start up when the know the oppositions vote count that looks awfully suspicious. When they find Trump ballots in the trash/military ballots in the trash that are most for Trump that seems suspicious. They are actually prosecuting a Belton Texas woman for 134 individual counts of election fraud, They caught a couple of Democratic politicians in Houston running a ballot harvesting scheme that resulted in large numbers of illegal ballots...it goes on and on. Will they turn back enough votes for Trump to win...who knows. All I know is that the media doesn't get to declare who won. They are still counting in AZ and Trump has pulled to within 1/2 of a percent.