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BW 4494 2wd upgrade + manual locking hubs

Jonh85851

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
South Florida
This is my first Thread; better to start off strong!

I’m a new Hummer owner and loving every minute!
I’ve been reading everyone’s posts for some time now, even prior to purchasing my H3T. After having this truck, I feel that GM was onto something with the H3T, but they were cut short and we were left wondering what versions they would have released. Interesting enough, I used the internet way back machine “historical website archives” and located information on hummers website eluding to just that; H3T sportsman. This truck was going to offer an upgraded suspension, engine, transmission, and 2hi,4hi,4lo transfer case. So, since I cant buy one I’ll build one!

I bough my truck with high miles (150k), so it needed some help if it was going to be my daily driver: front and rear 2.0 fox shocks. Upgraded breaks. Replacement bushings( All of them! ). Replacement control arms, upper and lower. New oil seals, engine, axles, trans, etc. The truck now has a good foundation and drives amazing!

So, after weeks of labor and overnight parts from rockauto and GM, the truck is ready! Onto the H3T upgrades!!!!

First order of business:

#1 Upgrade the BW 4494 transfer case. Without this custom piece none of these upgrades would be possible, or even worth the time. Lucky for me, I have someone who builds them. Information/pictures/specs forthcoming!

#2 Custom manual locking hubs. I’ve read a lot of forums and tech GM,Jeep manuals. I’ve also took everyone’s opinions on this topic into consideration. One argument which is common,”it won’t work without locking/free spinning hubs.” So, I have found someone who made me a custom pair of front IFS manual locking hubs and CV shafts. As stated above, information/pictures/specs forthcoming.

#3 Engine performance improvement. TBD- possible heads,cam, and HP-tune.

#4 ??? Who knows!

I hope this draws some interest into continuing to improve this vehicle. I’m super excited about seeing how this truck drives, handles, and outperforms ALL those Jeep Gladiators on the road. That includes all the Z71’s, ZR2’s and whatever else they can steal from the past Hummer engineers. Thanks for reading the post, I will take pictures and collect information about this transformation as it’s done.


UPDATE- 04/05/20

Hubs and Axles have failed! DO NOT BUY THEM; Axle broke inside the locker which required disassembly of the CV to remove the hub/fused axle shaft.
 
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Bigunit

Hammer Down!
Staff member
Messages
6,558
Location
Arizona
Good luck with your T projects and keep updating this thread as you go. As a fellow H3T owner, I am very interested to see what you're able to do with your rig.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 

scoreh3

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,024
Location
SoCal
Welcome to H40 from SoCal. I’ve always thought that they should have put a 2WD button in like the Colorado. Waiting to read more.
 

Jonh85851

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
South Florida
:cheers:


DBD9B7B8-0C8D-4AB0-9DDE-F6C9E4715F16.jpeg


AA7D21DE-EDD4-458B-A5DD-6A205FB46FCB.jpeg

C0B18BE1-AE08-41D8-97D1-CC756E368692.jpeg

BW 4494 Custom case!

Specifications: 2hi, 4hi lock, 4lo lock

Power splits: 2wd 0/100, 4hi lock 50/50, 4lo 50/50 4:01

Shift on fly retained from 2hi to 4hi
 
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JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,400
Location
Way up north, UT
That's cool that you're going all out on this, and doing the conversion to 2wd correctly from the sounds of it, but why the push for 2wd? Especially at the cost of losing 4hi unlocked which allows you to drive in 4wd on the street (while I get that you're in Florida so snow isn't much of an issue, rain certainly will be).

I drove my H3 in 2wd for over half a year and hated it. The handling was way off and felt unstable (too much understeer probably). Once I finally got the front diff back in and could drive it in 4hi unlocked again it felt so much better. And that was on the street. It would have been even worse offroad. There was zero improvement in fuel economy, and that was including the extra hundred pounds or so of the bulk of the IFS drivetrain missing. It will be even worse with the H3T since you'll be lighter in the rear than the H3 which will lead to being more prone to your rear tires breaking loose.

Plus going with custom hubs and axles is going to suck when you break them. I hope you plan on having spares made to have on hand since it sounds like you probably won't be going to the nearest auto parts store for a replacement.
 

Jonh85851

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
South Florida
I like the feedback and your questions have some merit; given your experiences. I have decided to retain the factory functionally of the dashboard transfer case selector switch- It's what Hummer would have done. 2WD operation is like any other Chevrolet/GMC pickup truck equipped with a factory 2hi/4hi/4lo transfer case. Some pros of this are (1) power distribution 100% to rear wheels, (2) elimination of torque steer, and (3) acceleration!!! for everyday driving. The cons are (1) loss of full time AWD, (2) increased rear tire wear from the skinny peddle, and (3) manual input/selection of 4x4. It's true, I live in Florida and it does rain almost daily. Before owning the H3T, I drove my 2WD Silverado everywhere, including the rain, dirt roads, etc. The handling and readability of my Silverado was never an issue even on wet roads because the stability control system is designed to compensate for tire slip. But, I do agree with you on wet road handling- AWD is superior.

Based on your above description, your experience with driving in "2WD" on your H3 was different in a few ways. First, you removed the front drive train components completely, resulting in a large weight loss from the front suspension. This "sprung" weight loss over your front IFS more then likely caused under steer, poor handling, and alignment issues. Second, if you removed your front CV axles from the hubs, your hub bearings were doomed to fail- Fast. The hub bearings on a 4WD vehicle are designed to support the vehicles "Sprung" weight in the following order: Upper control arm- Steering knuckle- Hub/Bearing- CV Axle- Bearing/Hub- Lower control arm. The CV axle carries/distributes the majority of the vehicles weight while inside the bearing assembly. Additionally, an unsupported (Rear- Outer Axle Housing) bearing could drift in/out of the hub; everything I have read/researched about this topic is constant. Second, you mentioned no improvement in your fuel economy/performance. I would agree with you, given your approach. I also debated on physically disconnecting my front drive-line (front drive shaft removal), when I was completing some repairs/improvements. How would this affect the vehicle? Very simple- You now have only 60% of your engine HP/torque going to your rear wheels. The remaining 40% is wasted on the disconnected transfer-case front input shaft. I realized, no matter what, the factory 4494 was designed with a planetary gear set with a fixed power distribution 40/60. Given this information, its possible your MPG got worse even with the weight savings.

Lastly, your absolutely right about the need for additional CV axles in the future. I've considered this issue and I realized some added benefits of the Manual locking hubs may address this concern. First, IF I break a CV axle/shaft, I can unlock them and drive away. Never again will I be forced to perform repairs on the trail/road, in-order to get home. I would rather continue to use the H3T in 2WD until its fixed then be stuck. I don't do any rock crawling- that brings a whole other discussion on the topic. Second, the only custom part on the CV is the outer axle housing which I plan on having made for a rainy day; future discussion after I post some pictures. I hope I answered some if the common questions/concerns that I've read repeatedly on many H3 forum discussions on 2WD upgrades. Simply think about a factory Z71 4x4 and imagine that drive-line in a H3T!:thumbs:
 
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amrg

Well-Known Member
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2,317
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Qatar
Interesting! Ive recently seen people in saudi arabia weld the inside of the tcase to make it 2wd when in 4Hi. Its great to drive in 2wd in the sand and whenever I go offroad I rarely use it in 4Hi open except when Im on long desert stretches, but I can easily drive those in 2wd (like every other jeep/1500 series truck out there with me). On the beach or the sand dunes driving in 4HI open is useless as I end up with alot of tire spin upfront esp doing a dune climb.

I also see your c.v. shaft point. Im sure on higher torque engines (the 6.0+ swaps) they will benefit from a 2wd mode. I know I would as everytime I get on the gas the front rises like a mf and my cvs are at a harsh angle. I end up with wheel spin upfront and I noticed my boots ripping faster than usual. (My original boots lasted 7 years and 90K miles with countless wheeling trips, my replacements only lasted 3 years and 20K miles without any wheeling. Now one of my c.v.s is clicking which means new halfshafts need to be ordered)
 

FloridaH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
75
Location
Baltimore
any chance you can share the people who custom build your tcase, hubs and shafts?

Or private message me their contact info?
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,173
Location
massachusetts
Im guessing the guy that did this is the one that builds the hub kits for silverados as well. I have concerns about the dramatic decrease in shaft size where it goes through the wheel bearing with his design as is necessary to facilitate the locking mechanism. If you are not offroading your truck then it isnt a problem but for us its definitely an issue. I have a 2wd H3 running the np241 and I hate how it handles compared to our other ones with awd but to each his own.

http://therammaninc.com/products/sh...1500-Truck-4X4-Locking-Hub-Conversion-Kit-301
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,400
Location
Way up north, UT
I wonder how those unit bearings will hold up over time with nothing holding them together aside from the turn over of the inner shaft. Seems there is a reason the torque spec for the axle nuts is 190 ft lbs.

$1700, ouch. Those stub shafts look to be slimmed down as well from stock by a fair bit. Hope they were heat treated properly afterwards.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

Jonh85851

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
South Florida
Axle shafts

Does anyone have data/specs on the following Free-Wheel Hubs?

Dana 60 Axle yoke shaft diameter?
Dana 60 Axle yoke shaft spline count?
Dana 44 Axle yoke shaft diameter?
Dana 44 Axle yoke shaft spline count?
Dana 35 Axle yoke shaft diameter?
Dana 35 Axle yoke shaft spline count?
 

FloridaH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
75
Location
Baltimore
Im guessing the guy that did this is the one that builds the hub kits for silverados as well. I have concerns about the dramatic decrease in shaft size where it goes through the wheel bearing with his design as is necessary to facilitate the locking mechanism. If you are not offroading your truck then it isnt a problem but for us its definitely an issue. I have a 2wd H3 running the np241 and I hate how it handles compared to our other ones with awd but to each his own.

http://therammaninc.com/products/sh...1500-Truck-4X4-Locking-Hub-Conversion-Kit-301
Can confirm this was them.
 

Jonh85851

Active Member
Messages
25
Location
South Florida
Can confirm this was them.

The Ram Man Inc is the company that made the kit- I have not evaluated its build/durability yet.


Question #1: You said your setup handles poorly... please explain this to the group. Also, what concerns about shaft diameter concern you about off-roading? What type of off-roading are you talking about (muding, rock-crawling, dirt-racing, trail-riding, etc)?

Question #2: Can anyone provide the group with actual micrometer measurements of the shaft diameters from the freewheel yoke axle shafts on the factory Dana 60, Dana 44, and Dana 35? Your concerns on shaft diameters may be valid, but, we have to backup these concerns with data.

I’ll do my best to provide the forum with data about my Hummer, it custom mods/parts before and after the install. I’m not representing ANY company- I’m a New H3T owner who what’s to improve on a design that is custom tailored for Me.

******Replies******
I want this post to be informative so EVERYONE can use this information. Keep the posts and questions coming!! The more information out there about this setup, including the concerns that are answered, will only help someone else in the future.
 
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FloridaH3

Well-Known Member
Messages
75
Location
Baltimore
Yes I spoke with them. They said yours was the first and they have a 2-3 week ETA for fabrication after ordering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,400
Location
Way up north, UT
The Ram Man Inc is the company that made my custom setup. If anyone’s interested, speak with Kate and ask her about the setup they made for Jon in Florida. Also, the link you posted is not the same kit/parts. My H3T kit is the first one ever made, so I’m sure it will take time for them to update their website; email them if you have questions: info@therammanINC.com


Question #1: You said your setup handles poorly... please explain this to the group. Also, what concerns about shaft diameter concern you about off-roading? What type of off-roading are you talking about (muding, rock-crawling, dirt-racing, trail-riding, etc)?

Question #2: Can anyone provide the group with actual micrometer measurements of the shaft diameters from the freewheel yoke axle shafts on the factory Dana 60, Dana 44, and Dana 35? Your concerns on shaft diameters may be valid, but, we have to backup these concerns with data.

I’ll do my best to provide the forum with data about my Hummer, it custom mods/parts before and after the install. I’m not representing ANY company- I’m a New H3T owner who what’s to improve on a design that is custom tailored for Me.

******Replies******
I want this post to be informative so EVERYONE can use this information. Keep the posts and questions coming!! The more information out there about this setup, including the concerns that are answered, will only help someone else in the future.


I already explained how having it in 2wd adversely affects the handling of the truck, maybe you didn't read it or didn't understand what I was talking about? Or apparently too tired to comprehend it? :)

Basically taking something that is 4wd which tends to exhibit neutral steering (neither oversteer nor understeer to too much extent) and turn it into a 2wd vehicle you are removing the counter effect the opposite axle has and thus induce either oversteer or understeer, neither of which is good unless you're doing performance driving and know how to induce and control it to your advantage, although understeer is less risky than oversteer. Simply put the H3 was designed to be used with 4wd full time, so the steering and suspension are setup with this in mind. Switching to 2wd conflicts with this design and you get poorer handling as a result.


As for the concerns about shaft diameter (and heat treating since I have a feeling he's not making sure the heat treating of axle stub after cutting the splines is still intact), if you're cutting down the diameter of the stub, in addition to cutting splines on it which reduces the effective diameter even further, then you run the risk of creating a weak point in the driveline that wasn't there before. And when you go offroad and hit any kind of obstacle, whether that is mud, rocks, gravel, a steep hill, etc, you're going to increase the chance of simply snapping the axle at the stub. In addition, while it's hard to be certain with the single greay picture of the machined stub, it looks like he machined sharp edges at the transition between the stub, whatever that step is, and the CV body. This is not a good thing to do as it introduces stress risers. Ideally those transitions should be machined with a particular radius chamfer to prevent stress risers that create a potential failure point.

You keep asking everyone else to provide you with the measurements of the Dana 35 et al stub shafts. I went ahead and Googled that for you since I think your goal is to try to get us to prove to ourselves that we're wrong about these concerns. I found this: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/dana_28_35.shtml

So the Dana 28 has an outer shaft diameter of just under an inch. The Dana 35 has an outer shaft diameter of just over an inch with the splines having a diameter of 1.16". Conversely the stock H3 axles have an outer stub shaft spline diameter of +1.4", and the inner stub shaft spline diameter is +1.2". Not even going to bother looking up the Dana 44 or Dana 60 because that stub end you have pictured is clearly much smaller than either of those.

What exactly is the diameter of the splines and shaft on your axles you have there? Looks like it's probably going to be using the Dana 28 hubs? Possibly the Dana 35 hubs? I sure hope it's not the Dana 28 hubs. Those were used on much, much lighter vehicles than the H3 and with smaller diameter tires. The Dana 35's are used on Jeeps with OK results, until you get to bigger tires (35" and bigger). Keep in mind though that the Jeep Wrangler/Cherokee and Ford Ranger/Explorer that use(d) those axles weigh a good deal less than an H3, on the order of several hundred to over a thousand pounds less.


I understand that you've already committed yourself to the idea and have already invested (heavily) into taking what many think (and proven) to be a well designed full time 4wd truck and turning it into a part time 4wd truck, and maybe for your application that is just perfect. I personally would never do it and can think of a lot of other things to spend a few thousand plus dollars on. I just hope that down the road you're not left stranded somewhere because the front decided to peel itself apart while you are trying to get through something moderate. The fact that I don't see a snap ring groove on that stub is also very concerning, unless it is drilled and tapped on the end for a retaining bolt. I'm also not sure what he used for the stub end because that profile I see in the picture looks nothing like the H3 outer CV joint. How much time did he spend going through the design on this?
 
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