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  1. #1
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    Exhaust manifold broken studs

    Well while I was working on the transfer case I decided it would be a good time to check into my exhaust leak. I figured it would be the typical cracked manifold but was wrong, apparently someone has removed (or attempted) the manifold and snapped off the 3 rear studs. Nice of them to cover it up with the heart shield.
    Any good advice on the removal? Iím assuming if they broke they are pretty seized, whatís the best way to get them out to get this fixed?


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  2. #2
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    Are they broke flush with the head? If so it's a royal pain to center punch, drill them out and tap. If they broke outside you might have enough to grab onto with a good set of large vise grips or if you have a welder tack a nut onto what's left of it.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxx View Post
    Are they broke flush with the head? If so it's a royal pain to center punch, drill them out and tap. If they broke outside you might have enough to grab onto with a good set of large vise grips or if you have a welder tack a nut onto what's left of it.
    They are flush with the block unfortunately. I know itís going to be a pain. Iím also wondering whether they are supposed to be studs or bolts now, the rest are bolts and on rockauto thereís a mixture.


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    They are supposed to be studs but many people put bolts in when swapping the manifold, I certainly will. Unfortunately it's a common issue. I have a broken rear one to extract as well and a cracked manifold but that job can wait until spring. Not something I want to be fighting with in the driveway when it's freezing.
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  5. #5
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    Whatís the benefit of switching to bolts? Are the buts more likely to sieze to the stud than the bolt is to the block?


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    I use a Dremel tool and start a hole in the top of the broken bolt. A reverse twist drill bit (with a drill in reverse) should grab the remaining part of the bolt and spin right out. It has worked well for me. Then possibly use ARP fasteners. That's my preference anyway...

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    Bolts usually won't shear off in the future like the studs do. Some jobs are worth paying for and not dealing with the hassle too. If I had three of them broken I would probably just drop it off to have fixed and go find something else to do. If you do it yourself just remember to go slow and don't break a drill bit or tap off unless you want to pull the head.


    Quote Originally Posted by adventuredad View Post
    What’s the benefit of switching to bolts? Are the buts more likely to sieze to the stud than the bolt is to the block?


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  10. #8
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    Old fabricator's trick (not sure if there's access to do this on the side of your engine):

    1) Take a low profile nut that fits over the dia. of the stud, and weld the nut to the stud.
    2) Let it sit for about 15 seconds and carefully remove the nut (and bolt/stud with it) with a wrench

    Tip: You want to be sure you are getting penetration onto the stud so weld from the inside to the outside. Use a low profile nut or cut a nut thinner so you can reach in well with a wirefeed torh.

    It works. Done it a bunch of times over steel. Haven't tried it on Aluminum, but if performed with care, don't use too high of heat, it should be ok. AL draws heat away efficiently. This is a particularly good approach when the stud could be somewhat rusted in steel threads b/c the heat from welding generally breaks the rust bond around the threads, makes it easier to remove. If the nut breaks off the stud you can repeat the process but make sure you get good nut-to-stud penetration. As I said, it might be difficult to perform on the side of the engine, but worth knowing about just in case.
    Last edited by Jeepwalker; 01-13-2020 at 02:07 PM.
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  11. #9
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    I'm sceptical of welding nut because of the aluminum block acting as large heat sink lol!

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepwalker View Post
    Old fabricator's trick (not sure if there's access to do this on the side of your engine):

    1) Take a low profile nut that fits over the dia. of the stud, and weld the nut to the stud.
    2) Let it sit for about 15 seconds and carefully remove the nut (and bolt/stud with it) with a wrench

    Tip: You want to be sure you are getting penetration onto the stud so weld from the inside to the outside. Use a low profile nut or cut a nut thinner so you can reach in well with a wirefeed torh.

    It works. Done it a bunch of times over steel. Haven't tried it on Aluminum, but if performed with care, don't use too high of heat, it should be ok. AL draws heat away efficiently. This is a particularly good approach when the stud could be somewhat rusted in steel threads b/c the heat from welding generally breaks the rust bond around the threads, makes it easier to remove. If the nut breaks off the stud you can repeat the process but make sure you get good nut-to-stud penetration. As I said, it might be difficult to perform on the side of the engine, but worth knowing about just in case.
    The problems I'll have with that are no access to a welder and it looks like the studs are flush with the block, I doubt there would be enough penetration to hold. Otherwise that would be a very viable option. I think the only way I'll be able to tackle this one is to drill and use extractors. I might have to see what a shop would charge me but I don't typically trust anyone.
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    When I was wrenching, shop costs were typically 5-600 unless we pulled the head. It's one of those jobs that takes however long it takes. Tacking nuts on is fine, we would do it all the time, your not running some long continuous bead to worry about heat.
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  15. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Hummer View Post
    I'm sceptical of welding nut because of the aluminum block acting as large heat sink lol!
    That is true but we do still do it here when we need to.

    Also, before you try to extract with a reverse drill/etc, soak liberally in PB blaster or the like!

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  17. #13
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    I'm sceptical of welding nut because of the aluminum block acting as large heat sink lol!
    It works. It actually takes more heat (higher power) to weld aluminum due to it being a better conductor.

    When studs are broken off 'flush' is when a guy can use the tack-on-nut procedure. Ideally you want to tack near the peremeter of the stud (where you get the most benefit of torque transfer), rather than the center.

    To be more precise on the procedure, because I've probably done it a couple dozen times (and think I have a pretty good success rate now): I prefer to take the welder and precisely and carefully lay a bead of weld onto the portion of the stud (sticking out or flush). Strike the arc in the center of the stud and work a circle from the center out, making sure the final round puts a good bead on the perimeter of the stud (inside perimeter). Start in the center because you can see what you're doing once strike the arc. Once I feel good I made good penetration and a 'strong' weld, then and only then, lay the nut on top and weld it to the stud. Making a pre-weld onto the stud allows ya to concentrate on getting a good strong bead on the stud, not having to worry about the nut. Then weld the nut on afterwards. It works like magic once ya figure out a good technique.

    It might be a little difficult to do it on the side of the block and a guy would probably want to lay a welding blanket around so you don't get spatter or any burning where you don't want it. Also, because you want to work pretty quick, I sometimes find it helpful to tach a piece of rod onto the nut ahead of time so I can quickly grab the rod/nut ...and hold it over the stud and start welding ..and not have to fumble with my fingers in a tight area. Then just cut the rod off once the nut is welded to the stud ...and remove the whole thing with a wrench/socket.

    It's easy to practice, for guys not familiar. Just put a piece of 3/8" rod in a vice and weld a nut to it. Tighten the vice and see how strong your weld is. If you have a piece of aluminum bar laying around (1/2" thick or greater) you can tap or drill a hole and try it with the aluminum and see if your technique ruins the aluminum ...and adjust your heat and technique accordingly. Then you won't be nervous doing it on the engine.

    If ya don't have a welder, drilling works too. The welding trick is still a good tip to keep in mind b/c where ya have a rusted/siezed bolt/stud, the welding works way better than a brittle EZ-Out. The heat helps loosen up the bolt/stud.

    Another tip: ...if an EZ-Out should break in a bolt/stud while trying to remove? ...another trick is to hit the remaining part with a #1 tip of an acetylene torch. The high strength steel (too hard to really re-drill) will sparkle and melt away like a sparkler.
    Last edited by Jeepwalker; 01-16-2020 at 12:17 PM.
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  19. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepwalker View Post
    It works. It actually takes more heat (higher power) to weld aluminum due to it being a better conductor.

    When studs are broken off 'flush' is when a guy can use the tack-on-nut procedure. Ideally you want to tack near the peremeter of the stud (where you get the most benefit of torque transfer), rather than the center.

    To be more precise on the procedure, because I've probably done it a couple dozen times (and think I have a pretty good success rate now): I prefer to take the welder and precisely and carefully lay a bead of weld onto the portion of the stud (sticking out or flush). Strike the arc in the center of the stud and work a circle from the center out, making sure the final round puts a good bead on the perimeter of the stud (inside perimeter). Start in the center because you can see what you're doing once strike the arc. Once I feel good I made good penetration and a 'strong' weld, then and only then, lay the nut on top and weld it to the stud. Making a pre-weld onto the stud allows ya to concentrate on getting a good strong bead on the stud, not having to worry about the nut. Then weld the nut on afterwards. It works like magic once ya figure out a good technique.

    It might be a little difficult to do it on the side of the block and a guy would probably want to lay a welding blanket around so you don't get spatter or any burning where you don't want it. Also, because you want to work pretty quick, I sometimes find it helpful to tach a piece of rod onto the nut ahead of time so I can quickly grab the rod/nut ...and hold it over the stud and start welding ..and not have to fumble with my fingers in a tight area. Then just cut the rod off once the nut is welded to the stud ...and remove the whole thing with a wrench/socket.

    It's easy to practice, for guys not familiar. Just put a piece of 3/8" rod in a vice and weld a nut to it. Tighten the vice and see how strong your weld is. If you have a piece of aluminum bar laying around (1/2" thick or greater) you can tap or drill a hole and try it with the aluminum and see if your technique ruins the aluminum ...and adjust your heat and technique accordingly. Then you won't be nervous doing it on the engine.

    If ya don't have a welder, drilling works too. The welding trick is still a good tip to keep in mind b/c where ya have a rusted/siezed bolt/stud, the welding works way better than a brittle EZ-Out. The heat helps loosen up the bolt/stud.

    Another tip: ...if an EZ-Out should break in a bolt/stud while trying to remove? ...another trick is to hit the remaining part with a #1 tip of an acetylene torch. The high strength steel (too hard to really re-drill) will sparkle and melt away like a sparkler.
    Damn man, excellent info! that gives me some confidence to seek out a friend with a welder that I could try it out with. Even the possibility of practicing on scrap is a very good point.
    I had no idea about melting out the ez-out either, that's another great nugget of information. This is exactly why I lurk around here, thank you!
    Just another father and family man that enjoys the outdoors.


 

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