Hunner EXtreme exploratory bumper thread

I know we wore out bumper discussions and it is still a dream. However, my fab guy got an FJ and so now is all fired up again. We got together about the rack over spare a couple days ago and started scratching out a bumper on the computer. I am still a hard core wincher and like my winch drum where I can see it. Overrides with cable or syn line can really be a problem often causing a winch to be disabled. I have winched out the end of a cable for others with hidden winches. If they get over rides and are in a strain they will pull either type down into the drum wraps and really be a mess. Been there seen it. Wheelin in bean fields and rice fields and the "bottoms" is a whole nuther world.
So for me and my PowerPlant I can spare a few more inches of overhang and loose my vanity over a hidden winch. So this might not be for everyone.
However if that is what seems to be the popular style then for the masses that should be an option. Hopefully to conform to the H3's original look. So prototyping one for the FJ gave some insight as to what would be involved. This afternoon I hope to have some pictures of what his place is capable of and how the FJ bumper turned out. There seems to be a market in that direction for the FJ while the H3 community has varied ideas of a design with an unknown market volume. There cannot be 5 different designs and be profitable at this time. However a design that has some options is possible.
Vague as hell cause right now I'm fishin again for serious input.:corn:

I like where this is going. I've always thought the BA's and ARB's were a bit chunky and imposing. I think THORparts is on the right track with the exposed winch, and in my opinion looks a bit cleaner than the large BA/ARB. Interested to see what the FJ's bumper will look like.

I want to show this of the FJ just to show what is possible from this place for the H3.
Ok this is built with his needs in mind. I don't have any way right now to compare the approach angles to other designs out there but from what we can tell there is not much taken away. The bumper basically just encloses where the winch has to mount. I used about 24mm to shoot these so some angles are a bit exagerated. The design was to be as light as possible without sacrificing strength where needed. 10 gauge was what was used. Neither one of us wanted a 200 lb bumper. Having the winch exposed was a high priority. The center bull bar to mount two lights was not back from powder coat yet. He decided to try this winch and use it for a guide. I have a Warn 9500 ti we are going to drop in to see how that fits and see what it would take to fit the Warn power plant. The tray was made the size most winches fit with the bolt hole spacing that seems to be what is used on a lot of winches. The Power plant fits on Warns mounting plates, it's just taller.
Then possibly make a cover for those people that want it concealed more for whatever reason.
There is not an option to move the winch back any further because of the design of what is behind it.
Too much to list as for the justification for this design and there was a lot to consider.
The lower integrated skid had to have an access plate to mount the bumper. So he tricked it out with a laser cut mud grip tread and FJ logo and that allows air flow to the lower part of the radiator.
Let your imagination run wild, I know I'm pumped to get started on mine. I want to use the existing fog lamps and those holes will allow access to mounting bolts.
I want to partially retain the "look" of the H3 but not at the sacrifice of functionality and I know he can handle it.




AND, I found this very interesting. Look how flat the angles are for the tie rod and cv compared to an H3!!
It uses coil over instead of torsion bars, a mod I have researched for several years, but I am not sure of the advantages for the H3 yet. I do have a long list of what it would take and some reference from people that know more than I do. Just more to think about before carving up an H3.

Notice that tow hook under there, I think that was more for tie down in shipping than for winching to. Looks like an 8000 lb winch could do damage to that and maybe the radiator surround frame. So new ones were fitted up higher and stronger.
Prius, look out!!

Hunner your being a pioneer again :cheers:

If an H3 bumper was designed it would be alot less beefy right? Those lines are nice, for me its a bit beefy for my personal taste but now that I do some fab I can really appreciate how much time and work went into this. The guy has talent. I am sure he can make a good looking bumper for our needs too.

One thing I like about this FJ bumper is the ability to see the winch for bringing the line back in. My brothers winch is a pain to wind up nicely and I cant even imagine doing it without being able to see.

Yeah like this baggage is gona go along this line!

and I want to tie in the existing lower aluminum skid to the edges instead of hanging out on each side like some I have seen that are generic. I have wanted to do this since 06 but had lots of false starts and dead ends. I discussed this when I first had skids made but they were so busy then there was no way. I followed all the threads about doing this and saw them die off. Now I have the chance to make what I want but will try to make it with easily adapted options. If it really happens for mine then I will see what options we can add. My idea is to use existing tow hooks and a mount similiar to the size I now have which has only two inches overhang. That way a Steelcraft brush guard could be added or removed. Later after the big part gets done we may look into a brush guard with light brackets. I'm not sure I will run one but want the option of bolting one on. I would like to lighten the front end some and compensate for the bumper. If the bumper protects the fenders out to the edge I can probably live with out a brush guard. I think I can in most cases avoid plowing down brush as I don't do that on purpose on the roads I travel and don't like to subject my H3 to that.
I have been gathering sacrificial parts to work on for years if I need to use one to whack on or replace mine.

You're a mad man Hunner. I love it!

It looks like most any winch mounted in front of the grill will be 7 1/4 from the face of the OEM bumper. Mine is touching the lower grill in the back and so did my Warn 9500ti. If I get stopped by that, I will go another way or winch!
Like I have posted that fall in Moab it can handle really steep angles. Another option would be to remove the rollers and use a hawze plate that they make for cable or switch to synthetic. That will give a few more inches up there.

Just a thought...it looks like THORparts has the winch tucked under the grill, possibly creating less of an overhang. This image is from THORparts.com. (I'm not trying to encourage a copy of his product. I just like to see options as a consumer. For the record, THORparts makes awesome bumpers and is operated by a real class act :thumbs

I intentionally will not make that style that THOR has out of respect and to achieve my goals. He does make a great product. We have discussed at length how I could mod his for my use and I seriously considered buying one from him and met him at Badlands. I do like how the winch is accessible. However for my purposes and to keep the Warn Power Plant which I really like and to have the full bumper I will attempt to have a custom fitted one made here in town.

This guy however made me an offer I could not refuse.
It was a surprise to me when the fabricator here approached me about building one for his FJ and my H3. Like everybody else I want what I want and hopefully will finally get it.
I stated very plainly this design is going to be to mount a winch in front of the grill, without mods to the upper grill. That is just my idea of what I want for my purposes and the type of wheeling I do the most. Yep there will be a bit more overhang but for me the trade off is worth it for the many reasons I have stated.
I want a one piece steel bumper side to side for protection on the rougher trails I go on. I have been running the setup I have since 06 on my 06 and now on my 08 Alpha and have not hit the front end on anything I have tried, yet. I am aware it takes off some up high approach but justify it for myself for functionality judging from my past experience wheeling for many years. Just the opinion I have formed.
So mine if it really happens will be like those OEM valances the fabricator calls "tupperware" only lopped off at angles across the bottom out to the fenders. There are still lots of things to consider that will determine the outcome. I will use the existing tow hook and mounts so everything out side of that will be formed. Basically I am just going to surround what I have except the winch plate will be part of the bumper. Mine now is the Steelcraft brushguard with the winch plate welded on. I will probably remove that plate and have the option to just use the brushguard at some point. It has not happened yet and may take some time.
As I have posted before but for the sake of this thread here it is, this is the steepest short rocky drop off I have ever encountered. Had it not been for Neo spotting and others helping stacking rocks I feel sure the spare tire would have hit hard. Thanks to all the guys in our group several of us in H3's did this. I was reluctant at first but the rocks made the difference. I will admit before that I had my doubts. My vehicle and I have survived by not just following behind better set up rigs, like the H1's! but questioning the outcome and hopefully making some adjustments to the obstacle when possible. So now, heck yeah I would do it again with that same group. All I could see in the windshield was the ground and my rollers did not hit. This is something I have not encountered in my travels regularly and would not attempt alone somewhere.

Hunner, I like where you are going with this, including removing the dead weight from that FJ design. I do like the Warn Powerplant though I doubt I would get one for my I5 as the engine already runs hot and I don't want to block much more of the airflow. That Powerplant is HUGE.

Subscribed!

Well it's just my spin on this and hopefully it gets done. As always I like to throw out the details and see what comes back. I am hoping it will work out that just about any winch will drop down in the exposed center so people can get low profile units, if that is what they want. Having it made here, I will have control over the finished product and can try to make it so it does not require hacking existing skid plates or grills and may appeal to those that want this style.
I started out living on a farm with three jeeps and they all had PTO winches. Great, if your engine is running.
When I bought my own 4x4, a LandCrusher I had a Warn 8000 with a big ole gear box and open spinning clutch on one end. I was never stuck "because" of the winch hanging on the front but I sure used it. I was the only one in the group I ran with that had a winch for a couple of years. They pitched in and bought me a spare motor. We went winching it seems rather than wheeling. A Blazer and a Bronco both finally got a winch, a Sidewinder concealed winch. The problems they had convinced me to NEVER install something like that. Yes, I have strong feelings about that. ha ha I was stuck alot because the front pumpkin buried up and stopped me, think about that one.
Scanned from a 35mm slide, anybody remember those? I'm trying to find some more, for entertainment and historical review.

When I got back into wheelin with the 06 H3 the first thing I put on it was the brush guard with winch mount and a winch. The assembly was the only one I could find at the time.
I was pleased to find the Warn 9500ti with enclosed contactors and relays. Vast improvement to me. It is about the same size as most winchs but a bit taller.

So for me since I needed a really good compressor anyway, the Power Plant was a nice clean unit to install where it was all accessible. Same deal, just about the same size as most winches with the same bolt pattern mounting. It is taller though because of the onboard air tank.

The OEM bumper is under there for 2 inches of that.


Replacing the rollers with a hawze designed for cable or one for synthetic will pull this in some. However winching at unavoidable angles the rollers do the job.
Like I said, I hope this can get done while the welder is hot!! I will try to post up some cad designs at some point. I'm still learning.

Hunner said:

I intentionally will not make that style that THOR has out of respect and to achieve my goals. He does make a great product....

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Well said and understood. I guess as long as the winch stays on the high side, clearance won't be an issue (as your photo clearly demonstrates :whaa. I should know by now that you have done your homework on this.

Well for some this might be of concern, I understand that. Hopefully when I get my prototype it will check out ok for my purposes. There is text book and actual practical application for the type of terrain we wheel. I'm a kinda lets shoot for what will work with what we got and see what happens kinda guy. The H3 design is going to determine how some of this will look to conform to any and all contours and mounting points the way I'm imagining it. Might have to take a couple of stabs at it. I have my soapstone at the ready.
Right now the winch plate on mine at the base of the winch is right at crotch level. The green tree reservoirs we flood for duck hunting we try to keep just below that level or about mid thigh at the most so hip boots can be used but I like waders, just in case. Think how much fun it would be standing in front of the H3 in almost frozen water that you just had to break the ice to cross and have your winch underwater about a foot when you hit that stump hole. Ideally it only comes up to the the axles and I go really slow to get out to where the canoes can float. Damn ducks!
I should have gotten OD Green or black for this part and if it was legal use the H3 for a blind and shoot out the sunroof:shifty:
I can't wait to get started.

Sounds like a Photoshop opportunity to me.

AbsntMnded said:

Well said and understood. I guess as long as the winch stays on the high side, clearance won't be an issue (as your photo clearly demonstrates :whaa. I should know by now that you have done your homework on this.

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I thought it would be interesting to show the "fall" before a few adjustments were made. This is our fearless leader NEO about to take the fall.

This is why my busy mind calculated that my H3 spare tire with that amount of drop would hit hard, if not the bumper as well, which I think it would have. But, teamwork resolved that. What a group.
It also shows how the little H3 can do some formidable objects and survive.
So winch in front of bumper, mounted above the frame, approach angle will probably still be more than I would ever want to do, going down at steep angles. Now straight on against a vertical wall it might touch sooner than without, but the wheels are set back far enough I'm not sure it would go up anyway, nor would I want to. I guess that remains for me to find out.

It's gotta get worse before it gets better. I think a powerwash in the morning would help. Exploratory surgery:shifty:

How about a side shot to show the kinda depth we are working with

I just shot some after cleaning it all up. My first goal is to get my H3 back in ready mode. I want to have the option to use the bolt on brush guard. Right now it looks like I will cut out the winch plate I have attached to it. A deep flat plate with lip for fairlead and shaped to miss the brackets for the brushguard will be added and supported like the one I have now in front of the bumper. It will have two back braces down to the frame using a hole already there. I removed the facia piece, eliminated the brace for part of that and flipped the others and ground off enough so it would tuck in and shortened the top bolt because it was hitting the frame.
Right now until I talk to Randy I am thinking of using the existing bumper so it will tie into the skid but it will have two more frame braces further back. I am trying to use existing hardware and save some fabrication of pieces that already work. A lot could change as we get into the possibilities. Basically surrounding what is there and giving me some protection out to the flares. I will have a wider version to extend to the added flares.
Mine will come out in front for the bumper, like before to miss the upper grill. If this works I can just have shorter plates for recessed winches. Still in the mock up stage so I can go in next week and have it stripped to take to the shop to do some design work on the metal shaped surround and built in fog light mounts. I hope. It depends on how their production schedule is going, but I want to be ready when he is.

I ran across this on a Russian Hummer forum a while back

Hunner said:

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I like this look.:huh:

Ha ha well I don't particularly like the open look. I want a steel facia across the front and wings up to the edge of the flares that also house the fogs.

Hey that Russian bumper is interesting. It does have a removable center panel. Now that I have gotten down to the basics I can tell that bumper, like most of them, turns out looking about like that just because when you cover everything, they look, well sorta like an H3! I'm thinking mine will be cut down in that center area, I don't mind seeing the winch. I'm trying to keep mine skinny and still cover up the inner workings some. At this point I plan on enclosing the very ends and have the option to install lights of some sort later on. That takes out more fabrication. That is a great shot for me to study. That might be sort of what mine turns out like, I just had not seen it actually done that way. Hmmmm
If this all blows up on me I just make one like Brodie did out of a 4x4!

Here's a few ideas Dave.

Remove the lower black plastic air scoop on the lower part of the radiator. Change out that compressor line and reroute it under or behind, just so it's not rite in front of the radiator anymore. Now you will have a bit more room in front of the radiator in between the frame rails for your winch to sit. Though it might be cozy, I bet you can fit your winch up behind the grille and in between the frame rails. If it fits you can then build your winch mount to be removable, just instead of pulling it strait out you will have to make it so it slides down and out or maybe even hinges out so it misses the grille when being removed. This will allow you to have max ground clearance.

Also another idea is to cut two "T" shapes into the front of the bumper, close to the frame rails. The "T" would be made to fit the foot on a hi-lift jack so you have a jacking point. If you look at the end of the foot on a hi-lift jack it looks like a "T". I got the shape drawn up in CAD if you want it.

Here's a example of what I'm talking about. This "T" design keeps the jack from tipping. On the H3 a good spot on a new bumper would be rite in the center of each frame rail.




Something else you might want to look at for ideas is that new bumper AEV is making for the JK. When making my rear bumper I spent a lot of time staring at their rear bumpers to get ideas. It's got a ton of features one of them being a water storage tank and built in tow bar. I know it's a rear bumper but you can use some of their ideas for the front. Clean extra water tank somewhere would come in handy.

Here's a link-
http://www.aev-conversions.com/products/jk_rear_bumper/

08SolarFlareH3 said:

I ran across this on a Russian Hummer forum a while back

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That thing looks like a slack-jawed dude...

Thanks Broken and Hans, I invite all input while I am at it. Mine will be a one off because it will require some mods to the fender liner and maybe extended out for my flares. So I want to hear all suggestions of what others have to contribute, just in case I can make a second generation without my Steelcraft mount, allowing a recessed but exposed winch.

I want to say again, right up front that I am staying away from what 4speedfunk has accomplished. I was going to get one of his and then mod it for my needs. Money was the hold back after my last two cross country journeys.
I have held off on two projects I came up with in 06 because others at a later date made theirs public and I was a little hesitant to sell a mod for other peoples rigs until I was certain they would prove not to cause any problems. I also held off as people came out with a similiar product so as not to be in competition. Now I see that has become a thin line.
In the case of the bumper I don't see what I want out there and I'm going for it.

The fabricator invited me to have one made after he asked me for suggestions for his FJ. He is the guy that makes the skids and rock rings for me, and so here we go. So far reversing some brackets and cutting up a facia, duct tape, "gotta have that" and cardboard to make a mockup for him to start with has been interesting.
I just got it all put back together sort of, I may need some bailing wire.
The Powerplant will not go under the upper grill. Just won't, too tall. I'm not chopping up my 7 slot grill. That is ok, I want mine out and up. What I am planning and just ordered is to put a Hot Dog 2.5 gallon air tank back behind my winch. Now I can run impacts and share air for faster air ups. I also got a steel fairlead or hawze to eliminate the rollers, it will look cleaner but if I ever try to stand the H3 on it's nose I won't have the rollers to stop me! I have run into those dang things many times with my leg trying to check things.
The line across the front I was just waiting and figuring out the best way to do it. I used a pipe wrench to hold the line next to the connector block and gently but firmly worked a curve in the ridged line at both ends. AC still works so hopefully I did not put any undo pressure on the seams. I did however discover the source of some Dex Cool I have been seeing when I removed the skid. Me thinks the waterpump may have a leak. 47000 miles today so better run it in Monday.
The wings will be solid and continue on the same plane as the other part rather than a slight step down as it makes the corner. I don't want a bunch of extra work just for cosmetic angles. I was just out in the shop for hours after pulling one of those 3 am gigs last night and have been mocking up that part with what I have to work with. I'm thinking I will put some extra lights in there that will work for night runs shining off to the side.
My bumper will be setup for my rig with what I already have sort of, I may cut out the winch plate and extend it back.
If I make anymore they will have a flat plate on top of the OEM bumper and supported like my Steelcraft winch plate is. That will allow the use of an OEM brush guard or Steelcraft without the winch plate. Making more remains to be seen but might happen.
Using the OEM bumper and reinforcing it will allow the clean use of the OEM front aluminum splash/skid plate to keep that clean look.
It's all a dream right now. Hopefully this guy will not back out on me. I am supposed to go in next week so I got busy.
I have left two exposed brackets for now until he sees it and decides if we need to make some or incorporate these or cut them up at an angle. I have raised up that area quite a bit. I hit that area in Boliver Island so cut it about where the damage was to allow a bit more clearance.
All the tupperware will be replaced with 10 gauge steel and textured powder coated.
Hard to believe how many hours it took me just to get to this point.
It's rough but will get us started.
Before

after