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Ham radio for dummies...

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
This one is for Mikkel! Im sure he has all the info one would ever need. I know he talks to people all over the world.

I want to get into HAM radios. Not as much for personal enjoyment but more or less for emergency purposes. While I wont have my license by the time I hit the rubicon (less then a month away) I figure its time to look into HAMs for the future. The rubicon has little to zero cell phone service and if disaster did strike with a rollover or injury I would be screwed. Same goes for my desire to take some general first aid classes but to stay on the topic of HAM radios its very overwhelming. I have been watching youtube videos, reading on the internet about typical ham lingo, repeaters, radios, etc.

To me the type of repeater being used is confusing and the different frequencies you use for transmission or receiving.

Do you start with a handheld? Are they worth anything to transmit? typically what range can u get with a repeater?

thanks in advance
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Not Mikkel, but here we go

You can get your license in less than 30 days get the book "technician class" by George West and read it
repeaters are simply robot ham radios. They wait for a transmission on a certain frequency, then repeat radio transmission on the broadcast frequency. Most repeaters work on duplex... that means they receive on one frequency, and send on another frequency. Tones are simply a code for a repeater to start repeating - think of it like a test tone that says "an authorized message is coming" Often there isn't a tone frequency for public repeaters, but if you're not getting a repeated signal - odds are that's the issue.

You can't operate a repeater - it's above your radio license class, so simply think of them as slave ham radios set up by others to allow rebroadcast. What you can operate is a HAM radio in two frequency ranges (once you get your license) - they're fairly narrow, so traffic on those frequencies can make their use difficult since you are not allowed to talk over or through someone else who is there first.

Distance broadcast is based upon output power and geographic location. You can have 50 watts, but if you're in a valley, the guy with a 5 watt handheld radio at the top of the hill is going to be heard; not you.

so this should make your mind race - I use an AnyTone radio that allows me to rebroadcast from my Kenwood handheld. 5 watt radios are good(ish) in an emergency, but power is everything when it comes to transmitting. That said, there are so many repeaters (and there are several lists online of their frequencies) that 5 watt can work pretty well.

Honestly, join your local Search and Rescue. Most times they offer wilderness first aid (first aid isn't really that useful), and give advice on HAM radios (or have requirements). Best of all - to them, closed gates are merely a suggestion - you get to wheel in places no one else does on missions and practices. If you don't join, take Wilderness first aid from your local mountaineer program, CPR from your local fire department, and take the HAM test from your local HAM radio club.
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Think of a repeater like a cell phone tower. It just takes your signal and rebroadcasts at a higher power level.
As long as your radio can hit the repeater, you're typically good to go, as repeaters are usually monitored quite regularly.

If I could only use 1 radio, I'd use a vehicle mounted setup. Much more power than a handheld (HT) and will let you reach out farther.

I actually use a combination of vehicle mounted and hand transmitters. I keep a couple cheap dual band handhelds in my rig, mainly to pass out to people in my group who aren't HAMs.
Also, with a good dual band vehicle rig, you can set it up as a repeater that will rebroadcast your signal from hand transmitter.
Useful if you're away from your vehicle (hiking or emergency work) yet still need to be able to reach out there.

I use a Yaesu quad band radio in the hummer, and cheap beofeng $28 handhelds.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
thanks for the info guys, I will look into SAR. For now I need to focus on one thing at a time. First will be HAM but I do like the idea of helping out.

So for repeaters you need to find them online? For example you would need to have repeaters pre determined for the location you are going to.
 

scoreh3

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,024
Location
SoCal
Hey Chris I used www.hamwhisperer.com . He is really easy to learn from , has little hints to remind you of the answer and has test blocks . He goes over all 400 poss questions , before you freak out the test I believe only has 50 questions ( they changed the testing after I got my lic, so I'm unsure how many now) I use the PAPA repeater system ( I'm keep my radio handy, but I don't do much talking on it ) .I took my test from Norm Goodkin in Agoura Hills , he does a real good pretest refresher prior to starting the test ( and there's lunch too) . It looks like his next test is July 19th . His class/test day fills up fast . His website is hamclass.goodkin.net . Like you I wanted to get my lic as a back up to a back up to a back up form of emergency communication . Earthquakes,fires ,floods ,major power grid blackouts ,etc can all knock out land lines and cellphone systems . Most repeaters have solar or a back up generator to stay powered up in the event of a blackout .
 

RadioMike

Active Member
Messages
34
Location
Abbeville, SC
A Tech license is very easy to get. A 35 question test and you have to pass 26 questions to get a license. You can take the practice test on line from many different web sites. I am a VE. If you pass the Tech test at a test session , the VE usually files the paper work on line and your call will appear in the FCC data base in about three working days.
On the trail, a Two meter mobile would be your best bet. There are many mobiles to chose from. Since you are going to make an investment, I would go with a true dual band that can be cross banded. A simple to operate talkie is good also. The Chinese talkies work good and you haven't lost much if you destroy or loose it. The only problem with them, most are a bugger to program from the key pad.
On two meters, the transmit frequency of a repeater is 600kc above or below the receive frequency depending what the frequency is. Say you wanted to work the 147.240 Repeater. Your radio would transmit on 147.840 and receive on 147.240. Sounds complicated, but it's not. Most two meter ham radios will automatically set he offset when you change frequencies.
Two Apps that I use are: iHam Locate and Repeater Book Either of these Apps will give you the frequencies and location of repeaters close by.
 
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SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
I had more trouble coming up with an antenna location than siting the radio... but I have clearance issues at work and in my garage.
I also realize I wasn't totally clear... most handheld radios broadcast 5 watts, vehicle-mounted range from 25 watts to 50 watts. Your technician license limits you to no more than (IIRC) 50 watts.

The test is 35 questions taken from 400 possible questions. You have to get 70% (26 questions) right to pass. Most books give you the question and the answers. I like the book I recommended because it's how I learn - I HATE long, esoteric discussions about why the other questions are wrong - this book gives you all 400 questions, and the answer to the question (along with a little box that tells you why). That is how I learn - reading the reason why something is wrong simply adds more useless information into my brain and increases the odds that I'll remember the wrong answer.

I took the test a year ago, so it's pretty fresh in my mind. Most of the questions make sense, so you only have to remember maybe 10 of the answers to the 35 questions. Another thing that helps, they have a rotating test bank - so there's like 3 sets of 35 test questions that are given in any year... that's where the internet is helpful, while they cannot take the questions nor publish the 35 questions, there are discussions of the tests being taken by people who didn't pass... those discussions hint at what the hard (the 10) questions are. Frankly, I really really doubt you'll even need to study - given your prior work you've done on here - so delving into the internet is something I don't think you'll have to do... get the book, skim/read it, take the test. Even if you don't nail it the first time, it'll give you a course heading to aim towards so that you can pass the next time.... that said, most pass the first time.
 
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abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
Chris, even if you can't get you license in time you can still get a radio and listen. You'll learn more by listening than any sort of written example/tutorial. Additionally, in emergency situations your license doesn't matter: you can transmit any way necessary to get aid. On top of that, many radios offer a lockout so you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting the transmit button. So, don't let the lack of license prevent you from getting setup. Rubicon repeater frequencies are listed here, so store those in the radio. You can look them up online and I also pickup a hardcopy repeater list every few years and toss it in my outdoor pack so I can lookup new ones if necessary. Repeaters aren't as hard as the material makes them seem. Most people set them up on the standard, which most radios are programmed to handle. Generally, you only need to put in the frequency and the PL tone (if any) then the radio handles the rest. It's important to double check the transmission offset (+/- and the offset amount), but in practice it's rarely different than the standard.

You don't need to worry about repeater range right off the bat since you don't need to set one up. That said, they have the same range as any other radio with a similar position, power, antenna, and frequency (aka it depends). The advantage of a repeater is they tend to be more powerful radios positioned up much higher with MUCH longer lines of sight. Thus, you can transmit from the bottom of a valley (as long as you can see the repeater's hilltop) and every other radio with a view of that hill can hear you when the repeater retransmits your message. On top of that, they can also have hardline connections to the internet which means other internet capable repeaters can be connected in a network. If a repeater is setup like that, the repeater's range is determined by the range of EVERY repeater in the network. There are several worldwide networks so transmitting from SoCal you could talk with Germany w/o the need for HF gear like Mikkel has (not to say HF gear is unnecessary, because it's definitely a good thing, but it gives you another opportunity for worldwide communication on Tech permissions).

Personally, I would start with a 50W dual-band 2m/70cm (44Mhz/144Mhz) mobile station in the H3 and a dual-band 5W handheld. That way, you can have power when you need it, but if necessary you can run up the hill on foot and get range too. I really like the FT-60R for a handheld, but there are lots of really good models that have similar capability. If you want cheap, there are Chinese dual and tri-band radios available for <$50 that plenty of people like (as long as you don't mind a hard to use menu system). Get an aftermarket antenna for your handheld; they blow away every "rubber duckie" (antenna that comes with the radio) by a long shot. Antenna, location, and frequency determine your range far more than power does. 5kW transmitter means nothing on a line-of-sight frequency, nor if your antenna is only radiating 1% of that power.

The test pool is published along with the answers. You'll find it online and at the back of the Technician Class book. The 35 questions on the test change depending on which version you get. But, like said above, it's a pretty easy test.

SuperBuickGuy, pretty sure you have the outdated info. Here's the power limits portion of Part 97: §97.313 Transmitter power standards. Technicians can push 1.5kW transmitters on 2m. I'd be useless, but you could. 70cm may be limited based on where it is, but I haven't looked up the Rubicon. Techs have way more than 2 bands, but 2m and 70cm are the popular ones for Tech (ARRL Band Blan). Also, Techs can definitely run a repeater but it's limited to the bands they can use and should be coordinated through the local group.
 
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06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
Thanks guys for all the info! I may pick up a cheap beofeng adventr talked about for the rubicon and just listen in and work on my license
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Thanks guys for all the info! I may pick up a cheap beofeng adventr talked about for the rubicon and just listen in and work on my license



Here's the handheld I use:

http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV5R-...e=UTF8&qid=1434926551&sr=8-1&keywords=baofeng


Have had one of them since 2012, and the other is less than a year old. Never had a problem with them. I hand them out to friends when on the trails, and at least one of them has been submerged in water before... LOL
Just let it dry out for a few days, and it's still going strong.


If you can swing it, upgrade the antenna as well! I use a longer antenna that really helps with reception, and it's much more flexible than the antenna that comes with the radio.
Here's the one I use with both of mine:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Y2SPH6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00



Currently looks like the 7" is out of stock, but any dual-band antenna with SMA connector on the end will work.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
One more question, on repeaters with a license of course do people get frustrated having personal 2 way conversations with someone? Or do they want you on your own repeater for that? Are repeaters normally pretty busy with chatter?
 

RadioMike

Active Member
Messages
34
Location
Abbeville, SC
I've been licensed for 20 years. Two meter usage has dropped a lot in my neck of the US. Two meter was all the rage when people used the phone patch on two meter repeaters before cell phones. Most heavy usage now is with new Hams. Most repeater groups welcome the activity on their repeaters.
Course a group of 4X4's on a trail ride could just use a two meter simplex frequency among themselves provided they were all in range of each other.

There is comfort knowing that with a General class or Extra that a person could reach out 200+ miles to someone on 40Meters and get them to call you in some help in an Emergency. No repeater needed.

RadioMike
 
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SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
SuperBuickGuy, pretty sure you have the outdated info. Here's the power limits portion of Part 97: §97.313 Transmitter power standards. Technicians can push 1.5kW transmitters on 2m. I'd be useless, but you could. 70cm may be limited based on where it is, but I haven't looked up the Rubicon. Techs have way more than 2 bands, but 2m and 70cm are the popular ones for Tech (ARRL Band Blan). Also, Techs can definitely run a repeater but it's limited to the bands they can use and should be coordinated through the local group.

IIRC means "if I remember correctly"... I didn't - thanks for the verse and link to the CFR. Oh, but there is this niggling detail in the CRF that says " No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 50 W ..." that's kind of exactly what I said... sure, I didn't complete the entire rule, but as I was speaking in general terms - there it is.
 
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abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
One more question, on repeaters with a license of course do people get frustrated having personal 2 way conversations with someone? Or do they want you on your own repeater for that? Are repeaters normally pretty busy with chatter?
Depends on the repeater. Some are setup and monitored for emergencies and they prefer chatter kept to a minimum. Others are definitely social stations for rag chewing with everyone in the area. If the frequency info is public and there's not an active/scheduled net going on, generally you're good to socialize as long as you follow good operating practice. Again, best way to find out is to listen first. If the repeater has a specific purpose, it'll be listed or someone will let you know.

Only time it would probably lead to frustration is if you tie up the repeater for an hour with long transmissions without a break. But, that goes back to good and polite operation.

IIRC means "if I remember correctly"... I didn't - thanks for the verse and link to the CFR. Oh, but there is this niggling detail in the CRF that says " No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 50 W ..." that's kind of exactly what I said... sure, I didn't complete the entire rule, but as I was speaking in general terms - there it is.
Sorry if it came across as jumping on your case, not intended at all. Just trying to correct common misconceptions.
 

Cowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
87
Location
Alameda
Ham repeater for Rubicon
El Dorado 136.805-.600PL123.0
Rubicon repeater 444.9875 +5.00PL 107.2 (this PL connects you to EL Dorado repeater)
Rubicon repeater ( on trail, when you can't hit others) 444.9875 +5.00PL156.7
Our club uses simplex at 146.460 +100
All 2 meter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,703
Location
Lake Forest, CA
Sorry I didn't see this until now. Sounds like lots of really good advice being given.

Chris, to help you get started consider this:

You can easily memorize the questions you are likely to encounter during the test. Once you have your license, THEN start learning the things that really matter. Proper use for emcom is definitely one of the things that DOES matter, as is polite and considerate operation in general. Of course, you need to know which frequencies you are allowed to operate on and you need to know how to set your radio's configuration to be able to get in to any given repeater.

The reality is that all of the tests will test you on a number of topics, some of which you will never use in real life, some you definitely will.

Finally, once you get your license, USE it!! Any skill you don't use will rut and wither away. The best practice for using your HAM radio for an emergency, is to simply use it on a regular basis.
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
Thanks guys for all the info! I may pick up a cheap beofeng adventr talked about for the rubicon and just listen in and work on my license

Most of us up here use the handheld Yaesu. We have been having some issues with the Spider Lake repeater and the hand helds. Frank is heading in tomorrow to make repairs, so it should be up and fixed before you get here.

When you get up here I will get a friend to program your channels for you. We have a bunch of channels on our rosters including CHP, Eldo, Tahoe, Butte, Nevada Counties as well as Rubi Sim, and a bunch of other simplex channels we use on the trail.
 
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bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
Ham repeater for Rubicon
El Dorado 146.805-.600PL123.0
Rubicon repeater 444.9875 +5.00PL 107.2 (this PL connects you to EL Dorado repeater)
Rubicon repeater ( on trail, when you can't hit others) 444.9875 +5.00PL156.7
Our club uses simplex at 146.460 +100
All 2 meter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which local club are you with? And I fixed it for you :)
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,703
Location
Lake Forest, CA
I am a *BIG* fan of the Yaesu FT-60 hand held that Beebs is referring to. It is vastly easier to program and simper to use. The cheap Baofeng radios probably work but most people find them cumbersome to program.
 

LagunaH1

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,703
Location
Lake Forest, CA
BTW, if you do go with a cheap Baofeng or Wouxun or similar, then you *really* need to understand concepts like repeater shift, offset and PL tones as some of the really cheap radios are harder to configure and program in those regards
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
BTW, if you do go with a cheap Baofeng or Wouxun or similar, then you *really* need to understand concepts like repeater shift, offset and PL tones as some of the really cheap radios are harder to configure and program in those regards


Yeah, it would be terrible to program in a bunch of channels via the handheld alone! I purchased the USB programming cable for mine, and use the free CHIRP software to program them.
Basically you just enter all your info on the computer, and then transfer it to the handheld when you're done. Much much easier that way.
 
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