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I need guidance

Stewartb109

Member
Messages
13
Location
Virginia
So I really need your help guys on deciding what direction to go for a vehicle within a few criteria. Any input would be great since the more I research the more confusing / frustrating things get (MPG, Cost of upkeep, repairs, problems, ect)

1. I need 4x4 and I would like to stay within the SUV class. I have looked at Land Rovers (I like Discos / LR3's), Hummer (H3), Jeep Wrangler (Prefer Unlimited), and FJ's. Are there any others I should be looking at since I am not rock crawling?

2. Cost -- I am looking at used (or new if its within reason) and would prefer not to spend any more than $25,000. This is so my monthly payments will be manageable at or under $300 a month with about $8,000 down. I will put more down if its the right vehicle.

3. Reliability. Hummers and Land Rovers come in at the cheapest out of all of the vehicles I have looked at, but apparently the cost of repairs and frequency of stuff breaking is high. Here is where most of my frustration comes into play. When I first started looking at these vehicles they came highly rated in capability and reliability. However the more I looked around and dug deep into forums, it seemed they where cheap to buy, but broke a lot and repairs are insane in cost. How true is this? Should I avoid both?

4. Fuel / MPG / Engine. I am looking for something that will last (my civic has 154K miles on it), and preferably get an alright MPG. Again, when I first started looking into the H3, it was looking like most where getting 20-25 MPG once they replaced the Cold Air with something like AirDoc / K&N, however digging deeper it looks like on average its 13-18 tops even stock (I plan on going 35'' tires, MAYBE a roof rack, snorkel, brush bar, spare, with weapons / ammo / ect). What vehicle is getting the most out of the MPG with the add ons?

5. Add Ons. I would like the ability to add a Brush Bar (I hear ARB is the best), Roof Rack, Snorkel, and bigger tires without the need of a lift kit. So aside from the Wrangler, do they all have a good variety / ability to mount these things? It seems Land Rover has some of the smallest pool of options.





Thanks guys for putting up with my newbie questions. I appreciate any and all input / feedback. :cheers:
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
The H3 shouldn't be a reliability issue...I'd stay away from 06s seeing they were the most problematic and even then they weren't that bad.

if your carrying that much weight I'd consider an alpha mpg wouldn't be far off and you would be happier
 

TAPDH3T

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,510
Location
Texarkana, Texas
I personally believe maintnace is close to the same!! Depending on how ruff you are.. If ur looking for something to travel in, the H3 would be the most comfortable and in my option most reliable.. I have owned all except the Toyota and have enjoyed and had less issues out of my H3 Alpha..
Being an Operator myself! My Truck as been the most versital out of the others and maintnace cost have been cheep because I have done them all myself!!
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
1. Don't forget the Tahoe.
2. $25K should get you the nicest H3 on the planet.
3. Can't speak for LRs but, the H3 is a money pit. Its an awesome rig but, it does require lots of attention to stay in tip-top shape, especially if you wheel it hard.
4. If you're coming from a Civic...you're in for quite a shock. 15MPG for a 5cyl. 12MPG for an Alpha.
5. Not many sources for add-ons. I do hear great things about THORparts bumpers, and that the owner is a stud.

All of the things on your list are valid concerns. Its also worth noting that Hummer is long gone they aren't coming back. Replacement parts (and the guys that know how to work on them) will eventually dry up. Qualified dealer support has been waning for years, and its so bad now that any sort of warranty is a non-issue to most of us. Thankfully, the H3 is an easy vehicle to work on, I see more and more DIY guys doing their own repairs and I encourage them to do so.

Most owners tolerate the cost of Hummer ownership because it is truly a unique vehicle...like nothing else. Major corporations won't spend a dime on developing parts for the H3 but, many of us forum members have done grass-roots research and we have come up with some really great parts to improve the weak links of the H3. I don't know of any other vehicle that has an online community so willing to point out problems...share info...and generate parts. We have to...because no one else will! So the research & development continues every day around here. IMO, there are 3 or 4 small items that every H3 owner should immediately buy & install that will drastically improve performance...while reducing maintenance and breakage. If you decide to buy an H3...we got your back.
 

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,398
Location
Central Texas
I have 95K miles on my H3. It has been wheeled pretty hard on numerous occasions and I wouldn't say that I have had any more issues than a normal car would have had with that mileage.
 

RamRod

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,914
Location
AB, Canada
All of the things I see here are a fairly accurate reflection of the H3/H3T, every make and model comes with its "charms" I have had issues with my T, but they were sorted out and I still love my T... wouldn't trade it for anything.

I rode in my friends brand new jeep jk four door, the ride isn't even comparable, the seat were hard and uncomfortable with the solid axle up front you feel every bump just that much more...... but then again you have the solid axle for off roading, a removable top for when it gets hot in summers and you want to cruise with the top down so your hair can blow (vanilla ice know all about this).

I got an average of 16mpg on a 2200 mile round trip with my gf this summer while on our camping trip, you can see below that I have a lift, rear bumper w/ full sized spare, 37's, supercharger.... so there are some MPG killers listed but also the S/C that can loose some major MPG when running wide open....

the best way to sum up the 3's is in the brand slogan
hummer_like_nothing_else_decal__09719.jpg
 

ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
Stay away from Land Rovers if spending money is something you want to avoid. I worked for their R&D department and the quality of the materials they use is way lower than any other manufacturer. Too much electronics that are a nightmare to deal with. I'm partial to US brands for simplicity and ease of aftermarket parts and upgrades.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"
 

Stewartb109

Member
Messages
13
Location
Virginia
Thank you for the insight gentlemen. I have always been leaning on the H3, especially since my Detail Leader drives one (06', stock). So with that taunting me it doesn't help. Now I'm not a mechanic by any means, but I am always willing to get dirty and learn -- is it like some of you said, a really easy vehicle to work on (EX. if an AK breaks, you grab the nearest rock and smash it till it goes bang) or would I mainly be looking at mostly a giant computer that resembles an engine? I knew about Hummer being out of the game, however I have heard whispers that the parts are still pretty much a match up to some Ford or Chevy parts and easy enough to drop in -- any truth to that?

Surprisingly $25K doesn't get you to much outside of DC -- for some reason dealers are under the impression they can charge a lot more than normal. I have seen some beat up or high mileage vehicles for $25K sadly. The one hummer I did find that I will be checking out this weekend is ~$22K, with 30K miles, looks like base model 08' (No leather seats, or nav screen, i5, ect). Next best I found was an 08' with leather seats, i5, no screen, but came with a hummer brush guard, tow package and some double lights on the grill (aftermarket) -- comes in at $18K, with 62K miles



It looks like the H3 is really my best option since Jeep lost its damn mind with pricing and they still are plagued with "they break easily", and LR's are a coin toss. If you guys have any more input, by all means, please post it up. I have been trolling the site now for a few weeks and looking at as much info as possible and taking it all in. As for those upgrades that most should do instantly, what are they? I was only aware of most people:

1. Replacing the Cold Air (Air Doc)
2. Ripping off the Chrome steps
3. Deleting all Chrome / Painting Wheels.
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
My opinions:
1) Avoid Alphas if you're concerned about mpg. I get 13 city, maybe 15 highway; my prior adventure package got 15 city, 19 highway (07). If you really want good mileage, avoid the 285 tire size and stick with 265s
2) LRs I've been looking at Disco IIs and will only buy 2003 or 2004s - the ones prior are terrible as far as not breaking (especially head gaskets)
3) Rubicons - good luck finding a decently equipped one for less than 25k. I paid 18 for my H3, and last Sunday was wheeling with 2 Rubicons, 1 unlimited and a ranger truck.... even the unlimited as nearly 40k new.... now you might find a 06 or 07 Rubi (prior body style) for the 20k range.... but you'll become quite familiar with the term "death wobble" if you do. But after wheeling with them last weekend, there was no where the Jeeps went that I couldn't go.... the ranger was in a ditch (lol).

Reliability
H3s and Jeeps are reliable, Land Rovers are not. H3s and Jeeps are relatively cheap to repair, Land Rovers are not.

Also, H3s have more available space and tend to be far better equipped than Rubicons....
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
As for those upgrades that most should do instantly, what are they?

1. Front diff bushings (outboard and crossmember)
2. Steering rack bushings
3. T-bar crank
4. AirDoc
5. PCM tune (PCM of North Carolina)
6. Separate cooler for the trans.

All of these are DIY mods and fairly cheap. They don't really have that much to do with "performance" as much as they do "reliability". I feel these mods are worth the effort whether you drive to the mall or to the campsite. IMO...its all stuff that GM should have provided from the very start.

Not sure where you live but, the Indy Craigslist is full of $16K to $10K H3's.
 

Stewartb109

Member
Messages
13
Location
Virginia
Well I checked Craigs just for the fun of it (Wanted to avoid private sellers, to many bad experiences), and there really isn't anything. Best find on there was an H1 for 70K.

Now for these upgrades, aside from the Tuning, would it require anything off the wall or would a normal garage of tools suffice? Like I said I'm not a mechanic by any means lol :

1. Front diff bushings (outboard and crossmember)
2. Steering rack bushings
3. T-bar crank
4. AirDoc
5. PCM tune (PCM of North Carolina)
6. Separate cooler for the trans.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
All DIY & hand tools...Saturday afternoon stuff. Do the steering bushings and t-bar crank at the same time and then get it aligned afterwards.
 

bro of bro of 3 & 3hummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
197
Location
South Padre Island, Texas
My 08 H3Alpha gets 14 city and 18+ on the highway with the cruise set at 68-70, less in a headwind. It does not have a roof rack or oversize tires and I know that helps. My first Hummer was an 06 H3 one of the first with an I5, We drove it 30000 miles with no issues. It was underpowered and got 15-18 MPG. Our second Hummer was an 07 H2, most comfortable vehicle I have ever owned but 12-14 MPG. Third Hummer was 2000 H1 still have and don't care what the mileage is, has 94000 miles, wheeled pretty hard and no real issues. You can buy our Alpha 58000 miles, (wifes car, never offroad) with Nav & Sunroof, Leather etc. for $24000.
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
May be Toyota is another option, from what I see it's reliable and fearly cheap in repairs. 4runner maybe. I have 2008 tacoma xrunner ( my work truck and DD) with 200k+ on it, had it since day one. No upgrades i constantly get 19+ with ~500/1000 lb loaded in the bed. Still on its original clutch.

Aftermarket offroad support All over the world is better that Jeeps. But you will loose.
 
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ArtHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,220
Location
Gaithersburg/MD
If take all of it in the account, I think, that Toyota will be your best bet. Not sure what you can get for 25K do. FJ are way to expensive and I just can't stand the look of it. It's just one of the ugliest SUV out there. But a good truck non the less... Definitely would stay away from the LR...
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,584
Location
Indianapolis, IN
From an overall reliability standpoint, id say toyota, and that is purely coming form what i have seen and heard about them. you can drive them to hell and back and they will still work
However, remember that an H3 alpha has the standard 5.3 liter v8 that they have been putting in gm vehicles for years....meaning they have worked out a lot of the issues with the engine and parts are readily available for it, so engine problems are going to be low on the list
As others im sure have said...to make any vehicle last it needs love and care, sticking to the maintenance schedule, especially if you wheel it.
I would stay away from Land rovers unless its a defender, but those are hard to come by in the states.

4.) Lets be real,,,a hummer isnt going to get mpgs north of 20, same goes for other heavily modified vehicles.

5.) From a parts availability stand point, jeeps aftermarket support is huge stateside, thus making parts cheap, and there are parts for pretty much anything you can imagine. Toyota also has a huge support and aftermarket network, and its global, more so than jeep.

Another option could be a nissan xterra, its a decent 4x4, but i dont know much about them.

Im with arthummer...all around a toyota, so an older 4 runner, or a high mileage fj would probably be in your price range.
 

Stewartb109

Member
Messages
13
Location
Virginia
Thanks for the replies guys.

As for Toyota, yeah they were on my list to check out and in for consideration, however the Price kept me from really considering them anymore. Also if they had come in at a decent price the thing with Toyotas in my experience is that you are dealing more with a massive computer under the hood more than an engine. So all in all they were knocked out.

The weight wont be to big, I think it will be mostly in the brush bar that I will add. I still like the ARB stuff for its stability, but I don't like the pricing lol. I am down with anything that can ram a deer (day to day chance) or possibly a vehicle (Work possibility) and still keep me running. The tires would be a feel good thing, as I dont plan on rock crawling, but I want to be able to deal with anything I come in contact within reason (snow, mud, ice, water, rocks, tress).. Its always up in the air for what I do come in contact with as its decided by my Client and their location (Dignitary protection)

Mostly it looks like the non alpha models are my best chance around me currently as they have the least amount of miles and the lowest cost.

I will keep you guys posted as this adventure continues.
 

Best4x4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,042
Location
Vidor, TX
I've owned Land Rover's, Jeep's, and now an H3. They've all got their ups and downs. Land Rover's 94-04 are truly awesome on/off road, but some of the interior technology can be fragile, but the drive train and engines are bullet proof if maintained properly. The other downside to a Land Rover is running 93 octane fuel. I got by on all of my Rover's by running 89 octane fuel, but when hauling a load or heavy gear you could tell the difference in HP. I never had a single mechanical or electrical issue with any of my 5 Land Rover's. DO NOT buy a Land Rover that some one has tweaked with any of the OEM wiring. That is the #1 issue with Land Rover electronics. Stock it's fine, but once someone tries to add an aftermarket alarm, stereo, or off road lights the gremlins will appear and it's not really the Rover's fault, but the previous owners!

Jeep wise I think you're looking at the wrong vehicle. I'd highly recommend a clean 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L V8 in Quadratrac II or an Overland with the 4.7L HO V8 and Quadratrac II. You get a great ride, great 4x4 system, great engine, tows great, and great gas mileage. I still have an 04 Special Edition Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L V8 Quadratrac II 4x4 system, tow package, and the upcountry suspension package. It's got 170K on it, everything still works like new, and with street tires vs my 32inch MT's it has no problem getting 21MPG on the highway. I call it old faithful lol. My wife drives it to work everyday and it never lets me down. Simple to work on, solid axle up front for awesome flex if you wanna wheel it, and plenty of aftermarket parts.

The H3 is a great SUV, but vs the Grand Cherokee it's smaller, doesn't get as good of gas mileage, and it's got an IFS up front vs a solid axle. Now the H3 truly has a unique look vs the Grand Cherokee (unless you install an ARB Bull Bar, a roof rack, and a lift on the Grand like mine). The Jeep has more get up and go vs the H3 because the Grand Cherokee weighs a lot less. The Hummer is easy to work on, but aftermarket parts are hard to come by vs for a Jeep or Land Rover. Also as mentioned above Hummer is history.

I love my Jeeps, my Rover's, and my H3 Alpha. Each has it's own unique style and character. IMHO you can't go wrong with a Series II Land Rover Discovery (04 had a center locking diff which makes the 04 the popular model to get). The Grand Cherokee is directly in the middle of a Land Rover and H3 if you ask me. The Wrangler has turned into a status vehicle or a cookie cutter meaning I see so many they all look the same or they just look like a Smittybilt Catalog with wheels. I love the TJ/LJ model Wrangler. The JK is overpriced for what you get and the ride is horrible vs an H3 or Jeep Grand Cherokee!

If you wanna stand out I'd go for an 04 Series II Land Rover SE7 with dual HVAC, 7 seating, a 4.6L V8, and diff lock. There are tons of aftermarket parts and dealers like Atlantic British, British Pacific, and Rover's North just to name a few. Or an 07-10 Hummer H3 which certainly stands out for it's cool styling. I prefer the Alpha for the 5.3L V8 power and on the road I still get 16MPG which is what my F150 got. If I wanted high MPG I'd switch over to a 1980's Honda CRX lol. It got 50MPG back in 1986!! I love my hummer because it's rare vs other SUV's out there, and I don't like to drive the same thing everyone else is driving!

Congrats on your H3!
 
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backcountryislife

Well-Known Member
Messages
858
Location
Dumont, CO
As someone who went from the H3 to the JK (4 door rubi) if you're not wanting to crawl... don't waste the money on a Jeep. The solid axle is HUGE for crawling, as is the ability to gear down, but without the rock side of things, the H3 is a little better vehicle. Hated the doors, disliked the electronics (my JK has a METAL LEVER for when I put it into 4L... I like that), but the H3 drove better, got better mpg, and honestly, the big things in the H3 are common enough that I wouldn't be the least bit worried about availability.

If you can justify a yota dollar wise, I think you'd get it back in the long run. Little better motor, little better MPG, and a bit more proven. THere's not much the yota can do that the 3 can do better... but the yota is so dam boring (and the FJ is so dam odd... terrible back doors, awkward access... I test drove one & went right back to the 3)
 
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