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Paladine71
02-06-2013, 02:31 AM
What are your reviews of the .22LR pistols?

Beretta Bobcat 21A?

Walther P22?

Ruger SR22?

Mark II?

SIG?

others?

How do they feed, ammo preferences, reliability, construction?

I'm looking for something to train my daughter on...

ReconH3
02-06-2013, 05:34 AM
I'm also very interested in this topic for the same reasons. I have yet to see a reliable 22 pistol. They're always having all kinds of issues. I'm sure there has to be something out there that is reliable, so please enlighten me.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

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Scarsman
02-06-2013, 06:00 AM
Only one I can speak to is the Mark II. The one I've had experience with for about 15 years had been awesome. Eats every type of ammo I've ever fed it without a hitch. And darn accurate, too. Just make sure you have quality magazines ands take care of them.



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Gunner_45
02-06-2013, 08:29 AM
My Ruger has been flawless for the past 15 years and eatsany ammo I feed it.

A bit of a bitch to clean....but a great gun.

Mine has the ten inch bull barrel and a scope on it (I usedit for silhouette shooting).

For your purposes, I'd say get the Ruger but with a 6 inchbull barrel and in stainless.

f5moab
02-06-2013, 10:09 AM
S&W 22 is a POS. When new, I spent a half day at the range with about 10 different brands of ammo, and determined only two brands would feed decently. To this day, it still tends to jam. Went shooting with Neo a few weeks ago, and this gun constantly jammed, and Neo shot it through his AR with no problem.

skeptic
02-06-2013, 11:08 AM
Check into a Beretta U22 Neos as well. I have thousands of rounds through one, and after the first couple hundred break-in rounds it's been flawless. Even the break-in period was nearly perfect, just needed to bump the slide forward when the occasional round wouldn't go into full battery. Any ammo, it doesn't care. Before I bought my Neos I had it narrowed down to the Neos or the Ruger 22/45. I read a ton of reviews on both, and what ultimately swayed me is how dead simple take-down and cleaning the Neos is. The Neos looks goofy, most people either love or hate the looks, but in my experience it's top notch for accuracy, reliability, and ease of take-down and cleaning. After owning one I'll always recommend it as a first .22 pistol. You can also get a carbine kit, allowing you to swap back and forth between pistol and carbine in just a couple minutes. I actually have 2 Neos pistols, a 4.5" barrel, a 6" barrel, and the carbine kit. Since barrels are quick and easy to swap (under a minute) and they have an integrated weaver rail, I leave a red-dot on my 6" barrel, a scope on the carbine barrel, and just open sights on my 4.5" barrel then mix and match whatever I feel like shooting at the time.

Downsides, the trigger is ok - not match grade, not bad, just ok. Not much in the way of aftermarket support. I prefer 3-dot style sights which isn't an option, but they do have a rainbow of colors for replacement sights.

As for your specific list - the only one I have is an SR22. It has a reputation for being reliable, eating any ammo, etc. With probably close to 1,000 rounds through mine it has not been as reliable as others. Jams, feeding issues, ejection issues. This is with almost exclusively cheap bulk ammo. Just this last weekend I took my son to the range and gave him the SR22, a box of 100 40gr plated round nose cci mini-mag and a box of 100 36gr hp cci mini-mag. Zero issues. It's a gun I really want to love, but so far I haven't. Based on what I've read from others, my gun is far more picky with more issues that most. The few others that report issues like mine report a long "picky about ammo" break-in period followed by eventual "eats anything" status. I'll keep shooting it and hope I can transition to bulk and maintain reliability. Take-down is as easy as it gets, flip down the take-down lever, push the slide back then off. 10 second process.

Not everyone will agree, but I include ease of take-down in my decision making process when considering new guns.

3Hummers
02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
My S&W M&P 22 has been flawless so far. Doug, my experiencecouldn't be more opposite than yours. Wonder if yours need to have the ramp polished?

Kurt
02-06-2013, 05:22 PM
I have the Ruger Mk III 22/45 and use it for target shooting. So far so good. I got the cheapest model on special [bull blued barrel for $279 I believe]. I've feed it CCI and Fiocchi ammo.

I'd would have liked to get a used mark II instead, I don't like the magazine release indent or the pop out loaded indicator. But I'm planning on modifying that and putting a match trigger kit into it.

I liked the S&W M&P 22 pistol, but I only have a few hundred rounds on that one. I love the feel and I had no issues. But there's more modifications for the Ruger so I use that for competition and the S&W is a fun gun but its been great so far.

abearden
02-06-2013, 05:32 PM
I've used the Mk II and it's one of my favorites, hands down. Only issue I've ever seen from those was user error; snake bites...don't ask me how.
S&W was good as well but not as flawless, though I've used those much less.
SIG Mosquito is picky as all hell with ammo (it doesn't like non-jacketed).
Ruger Single-Six has functioned well, but reloading is a pain. :)

Paladine71
02-06-2013, 05:49 PM
How about the Walther, anyone have that one?

skeptic
02-06-2013, 06:57 PM
How about the Walther, anyone have that one?
I don't have the Walther, but I considered it before the SR22 came out. No disrespect to any P22 owners, but everything I've found comparing the two pretty much come down to the idea Ruger copied the P22 and improved the common problems with it. Like I said, I don't own a Walther but I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of reviews and decided on the SR22. To be fair, I have read/watched reviews that say the P22 has a better trigger and some people just prefer it so I wouldn't claim the SR22 is better in every way. Here is a more in depth comparison, or just google it as there are tons of sr22 vs p22 articles/videos out there.

http://www.theshootersdepot.com/ruger-sr22-pistol-vs-walther-p22/

f5moab
02-06-2013, 08:56 PM
My S&W M&P 22 has been flawless so far. Doug, my experiencecouldn't be more opposite than yours. Wonder if yours need to have the ramp polished? No. the problem is not FTL it is FTF so it could be in the firing pin. That's why it is easy to think it is bad ammo, but other guns can shoot the same ammo. I could have the proverbial lemon. I can still use it to squash black widows. So long as my Berettas work flawlessly I'm ok.

58Bisc
02-06-2013, 11:16 PM
Huge fan of the Ruger SR22. Thousands of every kind of cheap .22lr I can find. Never a single issue. Hate to jinks myself. I average 500 rounds every Saturday. I have 8 magazines for it. Very accurate. At 15 feet with me seated using sand bags I can put 50 rounds in a 1 inch sticker. More then anything else, it is just plain fun to shoot. Everyone that I let shoot it has a blast. Maybe I just got lucky, but most folks I know that have one, have no issues. It was designed as a trainer that will eat anything and for me it does just that.

MaxPF
02-06-2013, 11:25 PM
Mk II owner here. Like others have said, it's a good piece but a PITA to take down for cleaning. My fave is the Browning Buck Mark, and I fully intend to own one someday. Price-wise, the MK III and Buck Mark are comparable. The only reason I have a Mk II is because I got it so cheap (used) :) Anyway, if you get a chance to shoot the Browning, give it a try.

Flash
02-08-2013, 03:51 AM
What are your reviews of the .22LR pistols?

others?

How do they feed, ammo preferences, reliability, construction?

I'm looking for something to train my daughter on...

Used to have a Taurus 9 shot revolver with adjustable sights and 3" barrel in stainless. Was very accurate. Even had speedloaders for it (HK's I believe). Really nice revolver to learn on. Poor trigger pull in double action but cocked single action was very very accurate. Most accurate handgun I've ever had.

Currently have (and have had for many years) a Berreta Model 87 single action only (SAO) with both a 4" and 6" barrel. The 6" has a counterweight shroud that is kept in place by a single allen screw. Will cycle everything including shorts. Originally I purchased it for cheap SA practice when I had my Browing HP, but that High Power is long gone. The Berreta 87 is also offered in a DA/SA model. Remington used to offer a truncated nose hollowpoint hyper velocity round called Yellow Jackets. These and CCI Stingers were very effective on woodchucks from the Berreta Model 87. Also shot a few Bowling Pin matches with it using the CCI Stingers. Fixed sights. White dot front. 2 magazines came with mine when originally purchased. Very well made and easy takedown for cleaning.

3Hummers
02-09-2013, 10:30 AM
Just picked up the Ruger SR22 and another 10-22 on Friday. Hope to shoot the SP on Saturday. Matt and I have a wrenching day so hopefully we get a little shooting in also.

Paladine71
02-09-2013, 11:45 AM
Since this may be a concealed carry later, I think I'm going to go with the SR22.

MaxPF
02-10-2013, 01:40 AM
You're gonna CCW a .22? You worried about being attacked by a crow or something 8791

Paladine71
02-10-2013, 02:52 AM
You're gonna CCW a .22? You worried about being attacked by a crow or something 8791

For my daughter... I carry a .45. :giggle:

Supposedly, the .22lr is the round that kills more people than any other.... but my philosophy is "why shoot twice?"

MaxPF
02-10-2013, 04:51 AM
For my daughter... I carry a .45. :giggle:

Supposedly, the .22lr is the round that kills more people than any other.... but my philosophy is "why shoot twice?"

Only because .22's are so common. A .22 can kill, but it isn't worth a crap as a stopper. Having the bad guy die 30 minutes after he kills you is not very comforting. I consider a .380 or .38 Special to be the minimum caliber for self-defense.

3Hummers
02-10-2013, 10:24 AM
I sometimes carry a 380 but prefer 9mm as a minimum carry size and usually carry a 45

Paladine71
02-10-2013, 01:25 PM
Why do I think that emptying a 10 round .22 magazine into you might cause you to rethink your attack.... :huh: Especially when she's using Aguila Super Maximum Hyper Velocity ammo.

My daughter is very petite, she'll move up when she's ready.

3Hummers
02-10-2013, 10:07 PM
10 BB strikes would have me rethinking it. I have always been a 45 fan. Love shooting them, reloading them and they do make a big hole. My wife carries a 380 most of the time and a 9mm sometimes. One look at her targets and you get the impression that she could be throwing darts and take care of business.

Flash
02-15-2013, 01:54 AM
Why do I think that emptying a 10 round .22 magazine into you might cause you to rethink your attack.... :huh: Especially when she's using Aguilar Super Maximum High Velocity ammo.

My daughter is very petite, she'll move up when she's ready.

Although many regard the .22 as a poor choice for self defense, it does have its virtues not to mention the Israeli Massad have used .22 Berreta's for years with excellant success. The .22 has low recoil, fast target acquisition, and high velocity. All important in handgunning. The lone detractor is bullet weight (aka energy transfer) however bullet placement can make up for some of that. Additionally, a bullets ability to "mushroom" and deform upon impact can be desireable. My Berreta Model 87 was loaded with Remington Yellow Jackets - a truncated nose hollow point round. The nose shape assisted in reliable feeding and the large hollowpoint (for a 33gr bullet) ensured expansion. With accurate bullet placement in vital areas at typically arms length, a few rounds could reasonably be expected to stop the assault. I carried the Berreta Model 87 many times as it is supremely comfortable and very reliable. Not a .45 by any means but it didn't weigh 2 pounds either. If I absolutely knew beforehand that I was about to engage in a firefight, then I would make very specific preparation and arm accordingly (most likely with the Benelli, 30/30, and perhaps the .357). But for a casual walk with the dog in a normally secure enviornment, the .22 can be an solid choice. Loaded with the right round it can serve a multitude of roles. Coupled with a sound awareness skillset, an OC component, a fighting stick of some kind (collapsable baton, umbrella, camera monopod, rolled up magazine) and communications (typically a cell phone), a person can be generally prepared. I would have zero problem as a firearms instructor, with a newcomer to shooting/concealed carry - arming themselves with a quality .22 as a part of their overall self defense preparation.

Paladine71
02-15-2013, 02:51 AM
This video demonstrates why I chose Aguila Super Max. 10 of those would ruin your day... quick.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpIm1otEG1E

Neo
02-15-2013, 10:17 AM
and the 1/2" pine board baffle test ... redneck style :)


http://youtu.be/OUM1r_444CY

R-code17815
02-15-2013, 10:48 AM
Ruger all the way for .22 cal.

Biggest thing no matter that gun.....Clean, Clean, Clean

Rimfire ammo is so damn dirty.



My latest .22 pistol idea is a conversion for my Glock.

Some company makes a complete kit for about $250, comes with everything, including 2 Mags.
From what I hear it's CRAZY accurate and never jams.

So basically, with a few extra parts to carry in my cleaning kit, I could have 2 guns in one, I like that idea.

3Hummers
02-15-2013, 11:34 AM
James, how do you like the SR22?

Paladine71
02-15-2013, 12:32 PM
James, how do you like the SR22?

Haven't picked one up yet, I'll get back to you.

Paladine71
02-15-2013, 05:59 PM
Okay, now I have one. Nice little weapon, my daughter is thrilled. Maybe we'll get to test it this weekend.

3Hummers
02-15-2013, 06:23 PM
That was quick.:) really like mine. I think you will like that little gun a lot.

Paladine71
02-15-2013, 07:39 PM
What ammo does it seem to like / not like? I know that every .22 is slightly different.

3Hummers
02-15-2013, 09:24 PM
Unlike the Sig it seems to do ok with everything I have fed it. Can't remember what all brands I have run through it.

58Bisc
02-15-2013, 10:02 PM
My SR22 eats 500 rounds of whatever I can find every weekend. At this point beggers can't be choosers with ammo in short supply. I have yet to run into any type it does not like. It makes life a lot easier not to have to be picky when it comes to ammo.

58Bisc
02-17-2013, 12:09 AM
Just upgrade all 8 of my SR22 10 round magazines to 13 rounds. That gives me 105 rounds (13+1 on the first magazine) before I have to reload them instead of 80 rounds. Probably one of the reasons I go through so much ammo...

Hans3T
02-17-2013, 11:22 AM
I'm going to my first gun show today with Perk. Hoping to learn a good deal and pick up my first firearm in the short term future. I would prefer a .22 pistol. I'll be reading this thread in greater detail on my computer later.

Sent with Tapacrack

Paladine71
02-17-2013, 12:00 PM
It's been too cold so far to convince my wife and daughter to go to the range this weekend. I do have to admit though, the Ruger SR22 does feel good in the hand, very comfortable.

skeptic
02-17-2013, 12:03 PM
A .22lr may not the best round for self defense, but it's much better than many people give it credit for. Not to mention, some people just can't shoot larger calibers well. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

3Hummers
02-17-2013, 05:08 PM
Have to admit I am a little surprised. While shot placement is paramount all other things being equal the .22 did very well. Looks like we all need to carry a 12 ga.

ashexxx
02-23-2014, 08:33 PM
I have an SR22 that I picked up from a friend. I love it. It will eat anything I feed it and it's super comfortable.

Brownie
02-23-2014, 09:38 PM
I have a PPKS 380 and a P22 Heavy solid very reliable but a very heavy slide. Good trigger on both. PPKs is a bi**h to pull that slide..P22 is better but you can do better especially for a newbe..

3Hummers
02-24-2014, 12:11 AM
I gotta P22 around Christmas. Been traveling way too much. I need to go out back and shoot a few hundred rounds.

chad
04-16-2014, 11:55 PM
A .22lr may not the best round for self defense, but it's much better than many people give it credit for. Not to mention, some people just can't shoot larger calibers well. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
Very interesting article, I agree a lot that it's not as much caliber as it is shot placement and bullet type can help compared to ball ammo. But I would like to see stats like that for the 500 sw. I blew a decent size tree in half with one single hollow point. I'm certain that will stop in one shot.

abearden
04-17-2014, 02:08 AM
Very interesting article, I agree a lot that it's not as much caliber as it is shot placement and bullet type can help compared to ball ammo. But I would like to see stats like that for the 500 sw. I blew a decent size tree in half with one single hollow point. I'm certain that will stop in one shot.
How many are you looking to stop? Because 500mag would definitely stop AT LEAST one bad guy.

MaxPF
04-17-2014, 04:10 AM
How many are you looking to stop? Because 500mag would definitely stop AT LEAST one bad guy.

Maybe 4 or 5 if you get them to line up single-file :)

skeptic
04-17-2014, 09:49 AM
Very interesting article, I agree a lot that it's not as much caliber as it is shot placement and bullet type can help compared to ball ammo. But I would like to see stats like that for the 500 sw. I blew a decent size tree in half with one single hollow point. I'm certain that will stop in one shot.

I wouldn't expect very many to concealed carry a 500 S&W, but I'd bet you are right. :) Same with a Judge and some nasty .410 self defense ammo.

abearden
04-17-2014, 11:36 AM
When I was looking at CCW, I was looking at carrying my Desert Eagle in a shoulder holster. 500mag wouldn't be much different, but I'm 6'5" so it's easier to hide.

Hercules-H3T
01-04-2016, 10:14 PM
P22 jams

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Scarsman
01-05-2016, 02:38 AM
Very interesting article, I agree a lot that it's not as much caliber as it is shot placement and bullet type can help compared to ball ammo. But I would like to see stats like that for the 500 sw. I blew a decent size tree in half with one single hollow point. I'm certain that will stop in one shot.

One thing to think about carrying something like that is the rule, "be sure of your target AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT." A .50, whether AE or S&W, is absolutely going to go all the way through a human, unless they are morbidly obese. I've personally seen a .50AE 350 gr JHP out of a 6" Desert Eagle barrel go through the front of a 300 lb bear's skull, through the back of the skull bone into the neck meat, and then lodge in a neck vertebrae, breaking it. 13.5" total travel, through two heavy layers of bone and then lodging in bone. Also seen the same round/same gun go fully lengthwise through a very large 100+ lb stray dog that was killing livestock and chasing people. It went through the dog, around 30", hit the frozen ground, ricocheted up and went through a barn window about 20 yards away, then went almost through a 2x6. I would personally never carry a round like that for defense in a populated area. Way too much risk from virtually guaranteed over penetration.

As for "stopping power", I've seen someone walking around after being shot in the torso with 12g 00 buck. Also seen people shot in the face with 9mm and .38 still functioning. I know of a guy who took 6 full power .357 Mag. JHP rounds to the torso, including in the chest, and he was still able to fire back, killing the Trooper with one shot from a .22. And he survived.

Handguns with ball ammo make nice little holes in and out, and will go through a lot! I saw a 9mm ball go clear through a very large man, left to right between the belt and bottom of the ribcage. Probably about 28" from in to out.

At the end of the day there are only two ways to stop a person who is trying to kill you. Option A is to make them change their mind, and option B is to kill them. Or I guess there's also option C, just give up and accept your fate. [emoji33]

Sometimes just active resistance, screaming, or just pulling a weapon will make them change their mind. If so, then awesome! However, if the person is totally committed and has the will power and determination to never give up, then you are only left with option B. In that case there are only two ways to make that happen:

1. You have to shut down the computer, i.e. central nervous system, the brain

2. You make them bleed out. This is obviously much slower.


This is why shot placement will always trump cartridge/bullet for hanguns. No matter what you shoot someone with, if it doesn't shut down the brain, then whether or not they stop is determined entirely on their mindset and how fast they are bleeding. Barring limitations from structural damage, like broken bones, they can still function until the brain runs out of blood/oxygen. Think about how far a deer can run after a perfect shot destroys their heart and lungs. And that's after being shot there with a high power rifle, which no handgun round can even begin to compare with.


For clarification, I am talking about the normal range of defensive handgun rounds, like .380 through. 357.

Oh! And the old Ruger Mk II is still a darn good little plinker!

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Ghostbuster
01-05-2016, 03:40 AM
Well I have a Browning Buckmark .22LR

All it does it shoot debris back into my face.

skeptic
01-05-2016, 12:03 PM
Since this thread has come back to life, I may as well give an update. When I first posted about my SR22 it was a bit picky about ammo. I'm happy to report that while it took a couple thousand rounds and several cleanings, it's now very reliable with any ammo. I'll still give the edge to my Neos, especially for accuracy with the 6" barrel, but the SR22 finally made it to my highly recommended list.

Now if only I could buy bulk ammo at local stores...

JPaul
01-05-2016, 12:31 PM
Now if only I could buy bulk ammo at local stores...


http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/youre_serious_futurama.gif