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silvrzuki77
03-11-2012, 05:25 PM
I could almost tap the sleeve and move it even with the bolts tightened. I added piece of plate behind it like done earlier and now i get maybe 1/8th of movement out of it now. I was going to try some of fiber material around just the cyclinder. I checked and nothing is cracked on the box. I was watching the driver side bushing moving quite a bit the first time around.

silvrzuki77
03-11-2012, 06:54 PM
Okay i think I finally fixed it? Ill keep checking in the weeks to come. Here is a before video of just the sleeve inserted.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/silvrzuki77/th_gear.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/silvrzuki77/?action=view&current=gear.mp4)
Then I re-read older post about people having problems and Hunners solution.
I used Jr3t frame bracket/spacer jb welded on. Still had some play like 1/8th.
Then I used some of the red rubber sheet gasket from ACE around the main steering cyclinder then the sleeve over it. Here is the second video with the amount of play now. Very tight steering now.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/silvrzuki77/th_rack3.jpg (http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/silvrzuki77/?action=view&current=rack3.mp4)

What do you think Hunner? Any concerns this way?

silvrzuki77
03-11-2012, 07:32 PM
sorry for the crap video!

Hunner
03-11-2012, 10:13 PM
Looks like it solved the movement problem. I never saw that much lateral movement except when I broke my rack! I did not think the two bushings at the other end would allow that much. That shows how powerful hydraulics are.
I would just check it and make sure it stays in place. The only thing I thought of with the rubberized material in there is that may eventually wear and get loose but way better than the rubber OEM bushing and easy enough to replace.
I guess if you guys are comfortable with spacing it out 1/8 of an inch that may work fine. Like I mention I was just concerned about mis-alignment but as noted it was really moving around with the OEM bushing and creating all kinds of pressure.
In my case I was going for the metal on metal with no slack. I will repeat on the 06 I did not do anything but stick it in there, but that one was also 3 inches long and captive between the hydraulic fitting and slight edge of that large end cap on the rack tube. I shortened it when I decided to sell some so it would fit between the tie rod boot and hydraulic fitting with stock tie rod boots. On the Alpha I did some grinding but have since found out squeezing the bracket first and then installing it works as well. Then the only thing that may have to be done is grind out the holes in the bracket a little at the top of the top one and bottom of the lower one enough to insert the bolts after squeezing which will not be much.
Everybody just check them and report back any changes over time.
Apparently some of us are wheeling hard because GM thinks that mount is adequate.

H3slate
07-01-2012, 09:11 PM
So finally put my steering rack sleeve on. I still have a little bit of movement, trying to decide if I need a new bracket or material between the sleeve and bracket.

That top bolt was not fun to get off for the first time. :whaa:

Hunner
07-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Yea that bolt is a test of patience. You cannot attack it you have to feel your way and get the right spot to get up in there. I jiggle it to make sure it starts going back in. A little anti-seize helps. I also chased the threads on the bolt and the weld nut in the frame.
Did you try squeezing the bracket top and bottom some on the back side where the gap is?
I'm not sure a new bracket will help, just some adjusting of the one you have. I was persistent with mine and tried several methods before telling everyone about these. If you keep at it, it can work with just the sleeve. If you cannot get it tight then I guess try the thin rubber gasket stuff but make sure it gets tight, you will have to check for wear.
I tried a piece I sliced off some of the 3 inch ones I shortened but the diameter being the same will not slide over it. I cut the ends off of it and tapered it to conform better. Being spring steel I can compress it on there flush in the vice. I left enough gap that I hope it will squeeze on tight when the bracket compresses it.
If that somehow works, for those of you that cannot get it tight, I can just give you one of those pieces. I'm glad I'm a hoarder!
In your case if you don't want to try to adjust the bracket see if this will go in there and tighten up and report back.
PM me your address. I want to help you get this right. It won't conform as far around in contact with the bracket as the sleeve alone but if you get the bolts tight this might work for you.
I have 5 extra racks and the one installed. They are all the same diameter and so are the brackets.
However as noted somewhere way back there the bracket is not shaped exactly round rather it is horseshoe shaped to conform to the OEM rubber bushing, we know how well that worked.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_6945.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_6946.jpg

H3slate
07-02-2012, 12:22 AM
Thanks Hunner, when installing I did not remove the rack from the crossmember. How important is the little tab at the bottom of the bracket? I feel like when trying to get the bracket back on, you have to get the top part in place and then use leverage to get the tab in place at the bottom. By having to do this I think any adjustments made to the bracket would be undone by pulling down on the bracket to get it in place.

Maybe I need to adjust the bracket with the sleeve in it, then remove the other mounting bolts so I can get the bracket on the rack and then slide the rack and bracket into place.

PM sent for the extra piece of steel. The first time I put the sleeve on and bolted down the bracket, the sleeve was loose in the bracket.

Hunner
07-02-2012, 04:27 AM
I have not removed the rack any of the times I have done this. I don't know of any advantage to that. As in some of those posts, I mention I don't think it will be tight without some work on the bracket. That is why mine fits tight. I know it seems to be a pain but it is a mod. I might try "adjusting" a bracket or two and do a core swap for people having trouble. I don't know for sure that would work in all cases but I am thinking it might. The problem would be I'm not sure I can do that in the vice on my test rack and have it fit on the vehicle. I'm not sure how many times I can stand to fit them on my H3. lol Maybe if I pull mine one more time and try to match one to it for a guide that would work.
There have only been a few that could not get it tight but like you, I don't think they worked on the bracket enough.
We can get you going if your knuckles hold out.
You can try this piece and see if that works for you.
On the little tab, in a moment of frustration and an oversupply of cool tools, I finally cut that damn thing off while test fitting these sleeves repeatedly!! lol
I have to go back and read that epic bunch of posts but I thought I admitted to that.

H3slate
07-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Nice. Next time I take it off I will put the bracket in the vice and conform it to the sleeve. i will probably get rid of the tab, just seems to be in the way. Trying to figure out why it is there in the first place. Maybe it served a propose during vehicle assembly and now is just in the way. Also with the extra piece of steel The fit should be nice and tight.

Thanks for all the help!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Hunner
07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
OK this "ratchere" is funny.
Sometimes if I go to bed thinking about a problem I wake up with some solutions. I got to thinking that cut off sleeve piece is too narrow. It might not seat well.
Sooo you are unofficially now recruited as a Hunner test technician.
On the left the piece of bushing/sleeve
Next a piece of a metal fence post clamp to hold boards to the pole. I removed the bracket and bolts. Galvanized so it won't rust!
Next is a Ridgid 2" electrical conduit strap clamp.
the last one is thinner and might be all you need. It has a strengthening rib down the back side but I think if you torque down those bolts it will press hard on that.
You should be able to loosen the bolts just enough to slide that in.
I still think the squeezing the clamp AND grinding the back side of the clamp at the bolt holes is the most secure way with no chance of something sliding out.
Squeezed one top right.
I have not tested these fixes but you can and report back.
Huh?
I'm sending you all three pieces but I vote for the wider ones instead of the skinny piece.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_6947.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_6950.jpg

H3slate
07-07-2012, 04:41 PM
I think the package came today, but it must be jammed in my mailbox, because I can't open it with the key. :gaah:

Will try to get it open, want to work on that bracket tonight.

Hunner
07-07-2012, 06:58 PM
I hope it's cooler up there than here!
I have all my front end stuff off doing some painting and checking things out and I think it will be too hot to paint until tonight.
I checked my sleeve/bushing and it still is tight.
If you tear up that mail box it's a federal offense, lol it was a small flat rate box.
It would still be a good idea to grind on the back of the bracket some.
Squeezing the bracket gets it to conform and touch more of the sleeve/bushing.
Hope you can get it done.

H3slate
07-07-2012, 07:10 PM
Ok, so after some banging and jiggling, I got my mailbox door open! Thanks for all the parts for troubleshooting Hunner!!

So I took the bracket off and put it in the vise and clamped it down around the sleeve. I also grinded the tab off the end of the bracket. The bracket was a much tighter fit on the sides of the rack, but there was still a little air space at the top. Tested it and had some side to side movement. The rack was not pushing away from the crossmember like it was with the rubber bushing.

Undid the bolts and backed up the bracket a little and fit the spring steel in at the top. Clamped the bracket back down, much harder to do this time. Tested it again, and still have a little side to side movement.

I feel like the bracket is doing it's job of holding the rack against the crossmember, it was not meant to prevent side to side movement. I can see movement on the other side of the rack, I think that this is the bigger problem, that the two bushings on the drivers side have worn out and are allowing the play in the rack. Both bolt are super tight.

I think I know the answer to this, but if I wanted to replace these bushings, I would need to get a new steering rack? Looks like I should have picked up one of the racks on fleabay recently.

Thanks for all the help Hunner, you definitely went above and beyond to help me out and I still believe in your product as a good solution.

H3slate
07-07-2012, 07:32 PM
Here is a video of the movement that I have right now.

http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/knappe18/?action=view&current=P1020291.mp4

Hunner
07-08-2012, 01:21 AM
That did not look like much. Was that with it jacked up or on the ground? When on the ground I have noticed it puts some leverage on components and could tighten up some. How was the steering when driving compared to before?
Yea if you have movement on the drivers side with those two bushings it's probably because when the original rubber bushing on the pass side wore out it put stress on those. Glad it did not break the rack.
I don't know if someone could press those out and insert new ones or not. Unless the metal sleeve in the center is worn I would think the rubber would show signs of tearing are separating.
Interesting combination of problems. It looks like maybe now that slack is allowing the rack to force some movement at the sleeve.
If you stopped all movement at the sleeve then it seems when you steer the other end would move some causing some sloppy steering wheel movement.
Hope you can figure it out, or get a rack and keep that one for a spare.
Until then now that you are an expert at it, stick that wider middle piece in there instead of the small one and see if that helps for now.
Or you could install a center bracket but if those bushings are shot it could still move at that end or it could bind it up with the combination and stop it from moving.
Congrats on the calendar picture. I can see how you may have worn the mounts!
That's what these things are for, right?
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/_DSC8158.jpg

H3slate
07-08-2012, 02:40 AM
The movement was with the wheels on the ground. Steering feels ok, not any better though. I am trying to decide if it is the rack or the tires. It's hard to describe, but it just doesn't feel as solid as I remember it. On paved roads it wants to grab to one side, on freeways it feels like just the slightest float at dead center. Will see how it does tomorrow on the trails. Then will get back under the truck and check the bracket.

Hunner
07-08-2012, 11:00 AM
You know another factor in the mix can be ball joints and a-arm bushings. Heavy and frequent off roading is obviously taking it's toll on our front suspension and we need to do all of these things combined to keep it tight.
I just had my old 95 Dodge Cummins up on the rack because it was wandering. I don't drive it much and after driving the H3 with tight steering it was very noticeable.
That ended up being upper and lower ball joints, pitman and drag link, ha ha geeze I rebuilt the whole thing. 235,000 miles
The stock stuff did not have grease zerts but the Moog I put in do. Same issue with ours on the H3.
However now drives out great.
I have wanted modded a-arms for years since back when I did had the tie rods made but never had anyone to do it.
Hopefully now that might get done so we can tweak the components without replacing the whole assembly.
You sound like you are "tuned" to your rig and can diagnose those changes in the steering so stay with it.
It's just nuts and bolts!
Let me know if I can help.

H3slate
07-08-2012, 09:19 PM
I suspect at least one of my upper a-arms needs to be replaced. I have had an alignment issue that I wanted to blame on Firestone, but think it is the a-arm. On the driver's front tire I have extra wear on the outside edge of the tire. This has stayed consistent through 3 alignments. I have been rotating the tires a lot to prevent too much wear.

I am patiently waiting to see what Duane comes up with for a replacement a-arm before I bit the bullet on an oem replacement.

Hunner
07-17-2012, 08:37 PM
h3SLATE, how is the steering now??

H3slate
07-18-2012, 01:02 AM
steering is the same. Haven't gone back under my truck to make any adjustments and still need to order a new rack.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

atvspeed4
07-23-2012, 08:18 PM
So with this mod is a rubber bushing still used with the sleeve encapsulating it as a spacer? I am working through an idea for the steering rack issue...

Hunner
07-23-2012, 08:40 PM
I chunked the rubber junk.
I got many miles on two different H3's that I got the bracket tight by being persistent.
Metal on metal, no rubber to move or get destroyed. It has worked that way for me.
Other than lowering the rack and all that is involved and the results this was the only easy fix I came up with. The next step was the center bracket.
How is that tie rod replacement progressing?

atvspeed4
07-23-2012, 09:56 PM
The company we are working with is making us crazy. They have such a great product that they have grown too fast and cannot keep up with their orders. We are giving them our weekly call tomorrow to touch bases again. I am looking into two different approaches. I was looking at a silverado 1500 2wd prerunner that used the stock rack with a brace that spanned from one half of the rack to the other tying them together to prevent snapping. They also hard mounted the rack to the frame. I was looking into a way to build such a brace for our racks. I also am looking deeper into swapping a fullsize rack into our rigs. It doesn't look to be as bad as I originally thought.

Hunner
07-24-2012, 01:23 AM
I can fully relate to that. That is why when Randy at Bulletproof agreed to work with me on fitting them to the H3 I jumped on it and made it happen.
Same deal on the skids, as you have run into. The place took on too much work all at once and ran off their staple of small customers that got them where they are.
If the big guys pull the plug as often happens, then what?
Well the rack fix using available OEM clamps and some modding seems to be working but there is room for improvement in most anything.
Mod on!!

Hunner
07-25-2012, 11:46 AM
Rack sleeve up date.
They are finally going to hardening Friday and will ship Monday.
Anybody other than those on this thread or have pmed me wanting these speak up now.
I could add to the order before Friday if I need to.
I have 30 coming as of this order.
Thanks
be careful out there!

Hunner
08-03-2012, 09:26 PM
OK, I got the sleeves. I took a chance and like I posted ordered 30 so we could get a good price.
I may not be able to justify that many again if these don't move.
I will cut some in the morning before it gets too hot and blast them.
I have a list and have plenty right now to fill all of those orders. If anybody is at a point they need these soon let me know. I will try to send some in the morning if the Post Office is still open until noon. That is if everything works and I can get up, lol.
still $40 shipped
paypal

1secondwind@comcast.net
do not gift me and do include your forum name.

If you still want a set of these please let me know.
If you no longer want these please let me know

Hunner
08-19-2012, 12:48 PM
I still have 10 or so left and I am cutting and blasting them today.
If anyone is going to use the neoprene let me know and I will not grind the edges back as much.
I have clamped one on in the vise on the test rack and squeezed it with a c-clamp and have begun to make the gap less but they will not touch on that edge.
As I have said that gap is so we know they have compressed all they can around the rack.
The neoprene will separate them a little more which should be ok but if we can improve the engagement of the teeth, why not?
Post up your findings when installing these so I can make tweaks to anything else.
I still recommend you be careful and not move the rack away from the frame member anymore than it was.
I don't think the neoprene will affect it as much as something solid being only 1/16 even though the durometer rating is tough it will probably compress some, but could wear over time.
Wonder how many of us will still have these vehicles 10 years from now??
I'm keeping mine!

Hunner
08-22-2012, 08:49 PM
A little update on installation that came up for TXH3T

Hunner Sleeve question/problem
So after going to my dealer for an oil change we got on the topic of the steering rack after my last replacement. I brought up hunners mod and he was interested and said he could install it for me. I was skeptical about if theyd install it right but said they could. So I pick the truck up today an hour before close and check what they did. They installed it underneath the new rubber bushing..... ok? Didnt think it would fit that way. I did the moving wheel back and forth test seemed solid but could this damage anything? Im not driving her anymore until I know for sure and Ill take it out and do it myself if need be. Heres a shot of it. Sorry for all the dirt on it, its been raining and muddy for the last week here.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/TXH3T.jpg

Hunner's response;
yeah I can't believe you would post a shot of a Hummer with mud on it!
Wow that had to have been tough to do!! I will go try that on my test rack.
It may move the rack away from the cross member the added thickness of the sleeve but then it would also compress the rubber some. If it is tight that could work.
Have you had a chance to have someone turn the steering while you watch it?
You just need to check it often for awhile and make sure the rubber is not squirming out.

Big unit reply;
Hunner, let us know what results you come up with in your lab/test rack - I'd be really interested to know how much that puts the rack "out of alignment" or even if it does at all. In esence, this fix "thickens" the diameter of the rack to further compress and take up any slack on the OEM bushing.

The oem rubber bushing going over the added circumference of the sleeve will not come completely together but may still work when the clamp is tightened but it will not bring the rubber bushing together so it locks.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7042.jpg
It does conform around the rack tube but like even without it if the bracket is not squeezed at the top and bottom will not touch the sleeve. The clamp will though contact the outer side of the sleeve and press it inward.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7046.jpg
I used the c-clamps to compress the bracket ends like it would be on the frame. If it is tightened down equally at the top and the bottom it will get tight before the ends with the holes contact the frame. But it is really tight. I ran out of hands trying to tighten them evenly but cannot exert enough force on the little handles on the c-clamp to squeeze them against my stand in frame.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7048.jpg
Your mission, should you choose to accept it is to go wheeling and then report back.
I don't want to rule out any combination different than my method of just using the sleeve for people that want to try other ways to get it tight on their specific vehicle.
It will move it out the thickness of the sleeve but the two bushings at the other end will compensate for some of that.
I can't say for sure that will be out of alignment enough to do any harm.
It will be less than the rack moving all around in that old oem rubber!
Last edited by Hunner; 08-22-2012 at 07:31 PM.

Hunner
08-22-2012, 09:01 PM
I did notice in this shot that the oem rubber looks elongated, or that it is wide than the bracket.
This must have been your old rubber, never use a used rubber!
Other than that only time will tell. Can you tell a difference now in the way it steers and the clunk is gone?
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/TXH3T.jpg
This a shot of a new bracket and new oem rubber.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7054.jpg

Hunner
08-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Links for more info on this fix by others.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3403-Hunner-sleeve-install-with-a-twist
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3152-SO-is-there-really-no-way-to-fix-the-steering-rack-issue-on-the-H3
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3494-Hunner-Sleeve-question-problem
contact me if you have any other questions or suggestions.

Hunner
09-09-2012, 04:46 PM
I got 10 of these left at this price. $40 shipped.

Pappibri
09-14-2012, 03:43 PM
I ordered mine from Hunner, just awaiting its arrival.. Trying to figure out the best way to put it on.. I guess from what I have read that I should use some sort of rubber around it before I clamp it down? I will go back and read, but the best way if someone could tell me would be appreciated... Thanks Hunner...

alrock
09-14-2012, 07:25 PM
Opinions on installation vary but if you want a strip of rubber please PM me your address and I'll send you some. Considering the rubber liner idea is new (I think) it hasn't been time tested to say if it is the best way do to this.

Hunner
09-22-2012, 10:04 PM
I still have a limited number of these left if anybody wants to get some while I have them. They will keep if you don't need them now!
The rest of these are still $40 shipped.
Paypal
1secondwind@comcast.net

Hunner
09-24-2012, 02:16 PM
I want to try to make this clear again, if you put 1/2 the sleeve in the bracket with it out of the vehicle, then put that in a vise and squeeze on the rounded part of the bracket you can get it to conform better to start with. I don't know how to explain that any better. I also suggested if you slightly over do that and the holes are off a bit try grinding out the lower hole as it has more bracket around it, just enough to allow you to line it up easier.
I'm going to go weld half of one 2 inch sleeeve on a bracket so I can see what that does for holding things together, as an option to grinding.
I still think squeezing, grinding, add neoprene and welding for hardcore fix along with flex lines and off center extra bracket with brace to drivers side bolt would be the culmination of all things to do the most reinforcing.
It has become obvious some people are just slapping the sleeve in there and not grinding or using the option of neoprene and that just won't cut it. The clamp has to be tight on the sleeve both with wheels on the ground and jacked up at full droop.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7131.jpg
Got some work done.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7126.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7129.jpg

Hunner
09-26-2012, 02:12 AM
I checked mine tonight and after 40,000 on the Alpha there was a bit of jiggle in the sleeve. When I removed it I could see some wear from the slight movement.
So I decided to try the welded one, some thin rubber I already had laying around from previous versions and see what happened.
The one I welded was a new bracket, squeezed in the vice first, then ground down the ends around the holes. Not a lot just took it down some to get more compression. I was not going to take off enough that I thought it made it too weak. I have not bent one so I don't know what causes that.
So I basically repeated a fresh installation, with a new modified bracket as I did before, add the thin rubber and it took out all the play. No movement jacked up or on the ground. I do use a couple of washers on the bolts and they still stick in the frame a half inch past the weldnut. I can see the ends with a flashlight .That saves some wrenching. The first time you do this I also recommended cleaning the dried OEM thread locker off the threads so you can start the bolt easier, especially the top one. I wanted to keep the OEM bolts with the guide end with no threads to get it lined up and started. I hate that top bolt but with patience and a ratchet with a handle that turns it goes ok. Well sort of!
This looks to me like the forces were front to back not left and right.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7162.jpg
The pair I fabbed up today. Hunner prototype red. lol for picture clarity.
I went ahead and made me a 3 inch one but the way I have to use SS hose clamps to hold my tie rod boots I would have to do some adjusting to use them now. Just another project.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7151.jpg
This is what it looks like when I tightened my top bolt all the way, allowing the bottom to pull away to show how much I can tighten up the package. Tightening that bolt squeezes the bracket around the sleeve and was tight all the way in as it compressed the bracket around the sleeve. I cut off the lower tab so I could pull this end towards the frame better. I also use red thread locker.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7155.jpg
then when I tighten the lower bolt the sleeve is tight and the rack does not move.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7160.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7156.jpg
I did use the thin rubber this time and stuck it in place with some good 3M old yeller spray adhesive.
My other end does not move either. Solid. Drove out to the humped railroad crossing and hit it at bout 50mph no movement. Came back hand checked it on the ground and jacked up. NO movement. I will see how this holds up. I just left the skid plate off for awhile so I will be more likely to get in there and look at it.
That and everything else I wrote is all I know at this point. Patience and perseverance.
By the way new tires are always great! I had to turn down the stereo on the concrete freeway. No more roar!

Pappibri
09-26-2012, 08:29 AM
Looks good Hunner... Love the Red...Glad too hear you got those new tires. Nothing like putting on new rubbers..:giggle:

Hunner
09-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Links for more info on this fix by others.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?295-HUNNER-EXtreme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves&p=67065#post67065

Hunner
10-02-2012, 12:55 PM
I ran across a Hunner saying I came up with over in the BP tie rod thread that applies here...........

"This is just nuts and bolts but they have to be in the right order." Hunner 2012

After some more prototyping and welding looking for any improvement I could make, I am now down to 6 of these sleeves available for sale.

shawndondo
10-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Like many of the others when I installed my sleeves there was still some movement. I didn’t want to grind anything down...so here was my fix. I did just like JR3T did and put a piece of 1/8 in plate behind the rack. I liberally coated the rack sleeves with JB weld after scuffing up the rack tube. I drilled and tapped three 5/16 holes in the rack clamp and inserted a few setscrews. I also drilled a small pilot hole on one of Hunners rack sleeves so the setscrew can fit very snuggly in the sleeve. I only have about 100 miles on it so far but it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere for the time being. I am also going to either get the Poly bushings from superpro or wait for the new PreferredChassisFab (http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/member.php?444-PreferredChassisFab) design (what I really think I’m going to do). Sorry i dont have more pictures i hit the ground running with this and then thought of the camera.

71067107

Hunner
10-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Great take on that. Holding the sleeve captive.
I tried to pickup my modded rear sleeve half but nobody was at the shop where I left it. They were going to use the large press to form me a rear half clamp.
Maybe Tuesday?
I still have some more ideas on this and will try them when I have time.

Hunner
10-16-2012, 02:33 PM
In response to the posting by Reaper;

It would help to know if you did any grinding on the bracket so it would fit the sleeve/bushing tight? and still had it come out. If you did not the rubber probably allowed it to squirm out. That Behind the Rocks video looked like an extreme test for it.

I am trying hard to get my combination bracket finished. I went by the shop I had working on it a 6 am and it was locked up inside. Apparently they forgot I was coming to get it and were out on a job. grrrr

I needed them to press some brackets I cannot bend and weld to the back half of a sleeve. I left a rack there for them to fit and match to the outer sleeve and OEM welded bracket.
The way mine is made it will retain the sleeve for those not grinding the bracket. Not sure but it should also add some compression to the sleeve as well. Of course grinding the bracket will make it fit even better. etc etc etc..............
Hopefully we can have some options with several people working on a fix. Guess I was lucky on the 80,000+ I ran on the 06 and 08 with just the sleeve

Hunner
10-16-2012, 05:16 PM
I'm trying not to clutter up Scorpion works thread with my responses.

I'm all for any fixes people come up with but I still want to try to offer a cheap fix to improve the reliability for those having problems since I came up with this idea that has worked for me. It's not about rush to market with a product or competition at this point, but rather making it easier for people to get this right that don't seem to have the tools to get it to fit. Maybe I'm more persistent about fitment.

You and Reaper are good test subjects, well Reaper is now. lol
I was going to offer backcountyislife a chance to test what I come up with, but he jumped ship.:no:
You all should know by now I take all this as a challenge and offer up my solutions and ideas for anyone willing to try them.
I think we will come up with some good choices.

quote backcountryislife
I thought the rubber avoided the grinding by taking up the extra space? end quote

If you recall the rubber was not my suggestion or first choice for people to try. The power of the hydraulics will force that out if there if there is any movement at all. I tried that in 06 and tried it again when that came up recently, as I have posted. It failed after one day of testing, just like before. No glue will hold that in place unless the bracket fits tight.
I think the extreme solution is a fabrication mod that requires the bracket to secure the sleeve. I have had better success with metal on metal but I guess the inner sleeve half needs more contact on the frame against the raised up portion. Lacking time and ideas when I got to that point I just ran it until all this came up again as other people finally got enough wear and tear to start having the problem I discovered at 10,000 on both of the H3's I have had. I will carefully try this metal rear bracket even though it spaces the rack out it is fairly thin. Then I want the inner sleeve welded to that. That will require making both halves that match and test fitting them to a spare rack here so it will be a bolt on mod, possibly still requiring grinding. It seems from info I can gather there are different results from as many dijfferent people doing this.
If I can get the shop to stamp out my back side bracket that may be an answer to extreme cases. I am not absolutely certain a solid mount at each end is the right answer. A bit of movement could be easier on the inner rack shaft and seals. I mean very little wiggle room. Only testing will tell on that. I am concentrating on the passenger side issue for now.
I just can't move as fast as I want to having to rely on others to bend this material.

reaper
10-16-2012, 06:06 PM
Here's my reply, most of which was posted back here: http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3817-The-Scorpworks-Steering-Rack-Fix/page2

I went back to stock after losing the Hunner sleeve in Moab: My 2nd Hunner sleeve was back in Colorado, so I had to go stock. And CRAP does stock SUCK!

I really think these need to be welded to the brace (one of them... the other will hold with pressure and the teeth).

Re: the stock one-- CRAP it's a bad design, there's a ton of movement back and forth on a stock rack with a new stock bushing. We absolutely need something that holds it steady from left to right. I think we need solid or NEAR-solid mounts-- a little bit of give would be okay, but it needs to be minimal and only under extreme force, not just turning the steering wheel.

Hunner: I'm on my 2nd sleeve, would love to test out any prototypes as we all work toward a solution.

Here's my conclusions so far:


What we need is LESS movement (none to minimal?) on the drivers side, and the passenger side's solution should match. For now, the Hunner Sleeve is the best solution we have, but we need something for the driver's side. Near-solid driver's side bushings may be the answer.
Also, a brace that holds the steering rack together. (It's a lot easier to replace a tie rod than a rack...)
As a bonus: you can get flex-lines made at Napa Auto Parts for around $100. Doesn't solve the problem but makes the lines less likely to break if the rack breaks. Seems like silly money to spend but I spent it. Hunner: maybe you could sell those cheaper if you get a few takers.
A center brace that matches the passenger side brace would be ideal. Hunner added this but we need a kit. Hunner, you want to sell these? I can get them made for around $150 but that seems a bit pricey... surely these can be made pretty cheap!


In the meantime, do you have any prototypes to send over? :huh:

Hunner
10-16-2012, 08:04 PM
Your summery sounds like about what I have been posting and we are just about on the same track.

I'm working on it. My main problem is I really like this custom ironworks place I am having make the skids but they go out and install their custom railings and awesome gates and custom spiral iron stair cases so are not in the shop all the time. We had a talk today about priorities.
They don't have a die or whatever you call the piece they would need to stamp the bracket I want. So they are sort of hand making me a couple. It's scary to me to have to do that with a 60-80 ton press!
To do what I want I would have to set up a rack over there in a vice so they can fit them to that so the sleeve halves will line up, not a problem I have several. Then both halves will be captive. I may have to set up an exchange program if this works as I will run out of OEM brackets.
OEM brackets may still be available and I have a contact that is the parts manager here. I don't recall what I paid way back but will check on that.
He did say some parts are getting hard to get for the H3.
I will let you know and post up if I can get this new idea made.
For now it sounds like others are working on the drivers side. I had always thought with two bolts at different angles that was a good mount. It may be that new bushings need to be installed in older vehicles or one of the new bushings of newer material or solid. I don't know about that at this time.

It's also important to mention my video showing play in the upper a-arm bushings as adding to the problem. Higher mileage is starting to show up in those as well. I have some spares and as you may know the solution at this time is to replace the entire a-arm. I talked with some place about modding them to fit bushings but never got much of an answer. I tried to have some made and the places did not seem to see much market at the time.
Hopefully Scorpion will get some done for us.

Pappibri
10-17-2012, 12:01 AM
Well... One thing for certain, and two for sure.. I thank ye for all of the time and effort that ye put into trying to figure things out Hunner.. I know it tis your passion, but still it is appreciated. I will be putting my sleeve on that new rack shortly. Just been too busy with exams..:gaah:

reaper
10-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Well... One thing for certain, and two for sure.. I thank ye for all of the time and effort that ye put into trying to figure things out Hunner.. I know it tis your passion, but still it is appreciated. I will be putting my sleeve on that new rack shortly. Just been too busy with exams..:gaah:

I second that-- thanks Hunner. Pappibri: I'd recommend welding half the sleeve to the clamp while you're at it.


We had a talk today about priorities.

I hope you set them straight Hunner!!!

So... what are your thoughts about a center brace Hunner? Is that something you're looking into offering? I have the bracket but need that brace for it to bolt to, but ideally we'd have something stronger than that brace regardless. And are you looking at any more rigid mounts?

Hunner
10-17-2012, 12:18 PM
I have been out cutting and grinding this morning.
The OEM bracket actually already has a hole in the curved part that a tiddy on the rubber bushing poked thru to center it. That could be threaded for a bolt or allen screw. A bolt with a hex head could be torqued down and would possibly secure the sleeve better!!! Probably a 3/8 bolt, so drill out the hole more and thread it. Not sure how much that few threads can handle but firm should push on the sleeve. People could do that without welding.
I robbed another OEM bracket from one of my racks and cut a sleeve. I'm headed over to the fab shop and see if I can get them to bend me a couple of the rear brackets. I know it was laying on the bender yesterday but have not heard from them.
Look back on my thread where I showed that piece I made for the center bracket. I guess it is still there. It's easy to make. But you have to "grind" the backside to conform to "your" frame weld. I guess they all close but probably vary some. I too I'm going back over all of that. It was 6 years ago I did that!
I need to consider now which side of the hydraulic fitting near the drivers side I would place it if I do that on the Alpha. I have to think on that more but it should be so it is preventing sideways movement a bit more just in case. Maybe to the far end to offset the other?

Here this is easier,
Basically it's just a stock bracket and a spacer piece of channel. However, as I usually say, it really needs to be custom ground to match the frame cross member in case there is some variation on different vehicles. I would hate to have someone use one and it put some pressure on the rack. I ground on mine until it just slipped in there and was touching the rack and cross member. There is an overlap where it appears there are two halves to that cross member and a weld to go over. Then you have to drill a gnarly hole and line it up square when it comes out the other side of that. The pass side sleeve/bushing fix probably is enough, but for people that really work the H3/H3T they may want to consider that.
It was strange when I ordered a bracket for that it was a mirror image of the normal one? Maybe for a right hand drive? Parts guy was puzzled as well.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7920.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/_DSC8158_resize.jpg
You can see how concerned I was about fixing this after a failure. I even double nutted it and of course Loctite and torqued it. I did use an OEM rubber bushing there for some wiggle room as I was also concerned about stressing the rack at mid point. This was on my 06, I have not done this on my Alpha, yet.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/centeraddedbracket.jpg

Revisiting this it looks like I did not put a bolt in the top thru anything just to hold the brackets together.
Heck if we just do all "all of the above" everything that has been discussed, maybe that will do it. Better than stock anyway.

Hunner
10-17-2012, 02:55 PM
I lost track but this must be mod option XY or Z?
Drilled and tapped a hole where the existing one was.

It takes a "Q" X 4-3/4" Ultra Cut Drill Bit-135 deg split point
3/8"-24 HSS plug tap-itm
and a 3/8" x 1/2" Hex Cap Screw (that is a 24 fine thread to get the best use of the minimal threads you can cut)
That will cost you $11.35 at a Bolt company for all that. I bought two bolts. Fergit the box stores.

I used a drill press to hold things but if you are careful and level headed you might try just a drill. It needs to be straight!
Gotta love new bits that cut curlers.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7317.jpg
Tap: I used a handle but again if extremely careful you might have success using visegrips. Use some oil and tap and back out a little several times with care.
I don't recommend the shade tree approach but if you only got a tree????
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7319.jpg
The screw can penetrate this far but you won't get there. This was good and tight but don't crank down hard just firm. The threads held.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7323.jpg
I used a piece of strap steel across the back to act as the fixed mount on the frame in my mock up.
I got this tight until I felt I should stop just as it quit turning. I'm not sure how many ft. lbs that is. Less than 1 uhmp?
It will not bottom out the bolt so I will use thread locker, as always.
You can see it pressed the sleeve hard and left a gap. Grinding the back of the bracket in addition would of course eliminate this. (did I say that) but doing both will be the ultimate.
Using the c-clamps for levers I could not turn the assembly on the rack.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7324.jpg
I checked and there is room between the diff and bracket to get this in there.
The next level if I ever get the rear bracket would be to use that welded to the inner sleeve to add more retained surface area and then this latest mod to compress it all together.

This was before this latest mod using the bolt.
I repeated using the rubber before I went down to the river the other day to give it a work out and had the same results as before, a long time ago. That was before this bolt was added. If you do use rubber or neoprene I would cut a hole so the bolt presses against the sleeve. That sandwich could work with the bolt.
The use of rubber is a personal option to try!
It looked good when I installed it.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7160.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7315.jpg
Mod on!

Hunner
10-17-2012, 04:24 PM
Hey Reaper, you might want to try this if you are going in anyway. I will try to get a couple of extra brackets for the rear tomorrow I hope.

shawndondo
10-18-2012, 09:43 AM
Hunner, I tried just the center hole setscrew first but there was still some lateral movement. Once I drilled and taped the three 5/16 set screws and the pilot holes on your sleeve design it tightened everything up nice and firm. Like stated above I also put a liberal amount of JB weld on both the backing plate sandwich between the frame and the rack as well as on the backside of the sleeves against the rack. As you stated use some type of thread locker on the setscrews or bolt which ever you decide to use. I think with the setscrew and poly bushings on the drivers side this will almost eliminate split rack....hopefully

Hunner
10-18-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks for your input. We need to consider all the ideas.
My thought was the big one in the center would push evenly on the sleeve so the teeth would mesh and the cut side would be about even.

I have thought about mounting it, tightening the bolt to mark the sleeve and then remove it and drill an indention in the sleeve. My concern with that is the bolt may crush into the rack housing. I used a bolt with a 9/16" hex head so I could get some grip and torque.
Did you drill thru the sleeve or just make an indention?

I used a large size bolt for more surface contact. Maybe add two more after tightening? It would look like a sea mine! lol but that might be what it takes.
This is really the opposite of grinding as it pushes the sleeve away from the bracket but may work. It also shows without grinding and conforming the bracket to the sleeve in a vice, the amount of slack there is because of the shape of the bracket, and the sleeve and rack being round. When I install one of these on mine that has had some grinding on the bracket and frame mounting area I think the sleeve will be held in full contact with the bracket. I want to wait until I can get this rear plate that will thru bolt to the bracket mounting holes and welded to the inner sleeve.
I'm headed out now to beg for it. More donuts.(these guys love Krispy Creme donuts)

shawndondo
10-18-2012, 02:17 PM
Did you drill thru the sleeve or just make an indention?

I didnt drill all the way through. just about 1/8 in or so just enought to make a dipple so the setscrew would sit in there.

Hunner
10-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Yeah that might be good. I tried tightening up my mockup as much as I dared. I swear that bracket stretched. I won't know until I get time to actually install it in the H3. My back up plate I was using to act as the frame may have bent instead. I was going to also cut down an old cut off from some 3" sleeves and see if some how I could stick it in there. I will have to work on that later but I think it would be tough to get it clamped down in the tight space we have to work.

Hunner
11-10-2012, 02:54 PM
Here was the completion of what I was headed for. I have had this in mind for months but, things got fuzzed up!
I wanted to have a full length bracket shim behind the OEM bracket. That will add some pressure to the fit but I don't think it will hurt that little bit more. Then Monday I will have a clean tig weld on either side of the back half of the sleeve tacked on the edges. I will assemble this one on my test rack so the teeth line up. The OEM can then come off and the assembly done in the vehicle. It could be dry fit up in there that way, marked and taken out to weld so the sleeve halves will line up.
Together it would look like this. So those having problems getting or keeping them tight without grinding, will have less chance of the rear one falling out. The outer one that is thru bolted will hold it all together. Rubber or neoprene could still be used but I'm still thinking on that idea.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7429.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7430.jpg
I want to find a simple upgrade that is cheap for the few that have had trouble getting them tight without grinding. I want a metal contact firm that will not move and will not allow a piece to come out.
As soon as I can have this tacked on I will change out the tight one I have on my Alpha with one of these.
If this works out I will try to do some sort of exchange with those that will try it.
I'm going in the shop attic to the Hummer Emporium and see if I have one more to mod for my test dummy, hahah

06 H3
11-10-2012, 04:04 PM
That seems like a good idea!

Hunner
11-10-2012, 04:48 PM
I mocked it up on the test rack using some bolts to hold it together. I could tighten the lock bolt enough it actually bent the temporary rear brace. So when that is flush against the frame it will not give and should become very tight.
I cannot spin it on the rack like this. Only testing will see if the hydraulics apply enough force to move it laterally. If so I can ad one or two more lock bolts.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7431.jpg

06 H3
11-10-2012, 07:35 PM
I really like that bolt idea...Can you torque it to a point to do damage to the rack? lol

Hunner
11-10-2012, 08:27 PM
I don't think so. By placing it in the center of the sleeve it appears to distribute the force over a wide area.
I need to look up how much torque that size fastener will take but the determining factor will be the number of threads in that bracket. I just got it really tight and a bit more to see if it stripped. It has not. I don't think there is anyway to get a torque wrench on it after installing in the H3. I will also as always use thread locker when installing it for real.
I'm thinking I am going to go ahead and place one towards the bottom to tighten up after the center one. The sleeve will have to be placed in there so the second bolt will be pressing back from the edge and I think I will insert the sleeve so the straight edge is down so it will be under the bolt. The teeth will align it at the top.
I also have to make sure that bolt does not interfere with tightening the lower mounting bolt thru the OEM bracket.
I don't think I can get to one on top unless maybe an allen head screw. Not sure about that yet. I need to wait to install it to see just at what angle that would have to be.
I can't finalize some of those details until I get in there. Stay tuned..........
FrankenBracket! two electrodes in the neck.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7437.jpg
As tight at this is I may install it and forego welding the back half of the sleeve for now and see how it does.
I guess that means I will have to go test it!

Pappibri
11-10-2012, 10:47 PM
Will be awaiting the verdict of the trial run.. I am waiting to install mine till we see how this idea works. The new rack they put in is still nice and tight so its no hurry. Want to do it right the first time...

Hunner
11-11-2012, 12:20 AM
I guess I could do a night run?
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/7441.jpg
This is without the inner sleeve half, welded. I had to know how it fit. I'm going to make another one and have that welded Monday just to further study what can be done. That would be even better I would think. All pieces contained and it will help prevent the rack sliding the sleeve any, if that is what is occuring and provide more surface area thru bolted to hold the inner sleeve half.
It looks like the OEM bracket will actually flex when these locking bolts I added are tightened and pull away slightly from the sleeve. The bracket conformed to the sleeve before I tightened them. Maybe that was part of the problem to begin with, was the bracket is soft. Could be part of the breakaway design? It seems strange it would bend instead of just break away some how. Hell I don't know but the thing is really tight as it sits and jacked up. So now it needs some flexing.
Mine was not moving before but this has to be even tighter.
The added metal on the back took up 1/8 of the wiggle room for a socket between the bolts and front diff because I had more trouble working up in there. Poor access for this either way.
This is really cheap to make, just takes some drilling and tapping and a 6 inch piece of flat steel.
Did I mention I hate starting that upper bolt!!

08H3
11-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Ha ha! Looks like Frankenrack! Glad that some of us are finding ways of making this work, even if the result has been attained from different directions.

H3slate
11-12-2012, 01:57 AM
This looks like a good idea. I like adding the metal shim behind the bracket and it welded to the sleeve. Also being able to tighten the rack and sleeve makes sense. I noticed behind my rack that it had contoured to the rack sleeve as I tried to tighten it down. Also, the back half of the sleeve was what fell out when it got loose.

Hunner
11-12-2012, 07:34 PM
As usual I share my findings and don't claim to have all the answers but I'm sure as hell trying, since I started this.
I spent the weekend working on several brackets. I went to the shop today to get some input and tig welding done.
I fitted each bracket to the test rack and then welded the rear half of the sleeve in place on the full backing plate. That has to be done so the teeth line up as each are slightly different.
The discussion between three of us came to the conclusion that if the drivers side uses the OEM bushings, it will move some a little as it was apparently designed to do. So mounting the drivers side so it cannot move at all could present other problems. The rack would take the pressure from the piston moving rather than the mounts giving some.
Follow this,
so I decided to use a nut to lock the bolt after tightening it enough to firm things up but not really cranking down on it. That nut could also be welded in place to provide more threads than just those in the bracket. Not sure if fine threads was the way to go or not. I was thinking more threads was better but it was pointed out that course threads were deeper and larger and may take more force. Jury is out on that, more thought.
Reasoning was this would capture both halves and tighten the bushing sleeve on the rack. However if the hydraulic force of the rack is possibly strong enough to move the rack laterally within the sleeve that would relieve pressure on the joint in the rack as opposed to rigid.
(someone mentioned it could be as high as 3000 lb?) have to check on that. It was also brought up without me bringing it up that larger tires, cranked torsions and hard offroad wheeling would all contribute to other forces being increased.
I still have to see if the 3/4 bolt will fit between the rack bracket and diff. I used 1/2 on mine but could see if there is room for a flatter nut.
If using the Holden Aussie drivers side bushings that either eliminate movement or only allow very slight movement then you might tighten the pass side even more to stop movement. Then you would almost have a rigid rack mount. Either for good or bad that would probably cause more feedback or vibrations and shock. Could be acceptable to some.
As I posted earlier I wanted to try all this installed but this weekend installed mine without the welded back side. So I tightened mine really tight. I will test it some and then change to the welded one. I just want to see how it holds up for a few trails.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7444.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7445.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7446.jpg

Hunner
11-12-2012, 07:47 PM
This looks like a good idea. I like adding the metal shim behind the bracket and it welded to the sleeve. Also being able to tighten the rack and sleeve makes sense. I noticed behind my rack that it had contoured to the rack sleeve as I tried to tighten it down. Also, the back half of the sleeve was what fell out when it got loose.

That's interesting input and welcomed. I have not had my rack out so did not notice if what you mentioned happened. I will try to look in there when I install the welded sleeve and bracket. You are saying that raised area over the weld nuts crushed some? Then this plate would hopefully prevent that. I think the rear sleeve being captive not only by the teeth but welded to that plate will solve that issue.
I was cautious on the thickness of the rear plate as I do not want to move the rack out too much.
I have to read back on all these posts, but did you say you recovered the sleeve??

H3slate
11-13-2012, 11:05 AM
That's interesting input and welcomed. I have not had my rack out so did not notice if what you mentioned happened. I will try to look in there when I install the welded sleeve and bracket. You are saying that raised area over the weld nuts crushed some? Then this plate would hopefully prevent that. I think the rear sleeve being captive not only by the teeth but welded to that plate will solve that issue.
I was cautious on the thickness of the rear plate as I do not want to move the rack out too much.
I have to read back on all these posts, but did you say you recovered the sleeve??

The area directly behind the rack was what bent. And that was due to trying to get that nice tight fit for the sleeves. I was able to recover half the sleeve. Thanks to you, I had enough additional pieces to put in a franken fix, but I am still looking for a permament solution.

I am considering getting a new rack as the rubber bushings on the drivers side have some movement in them. I also think no matter what we do on the passenger side, the driver side will become the weak link over time.

I contacted the Australian company about the poly bushing kit, but they are still a couple of weeks out before they are available. I need to figure out a good fix for this problem this winter, before I go on any trails.

atvspeed4
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
If we had a spare rack we could help...

reaper
11-13-2012, 03:25 PM
Ive got several broken spares. Send me an email with what you need.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

Hunner
11-13-2012, 04:35 PM
If we had a spare rack we could help...

I thought you had a mount being made some time ago?


I bought several spare racks just for experimentation and to carry one as a spare. I figured they were needed if I was going to come up with a better fix and cheap insurance on trips to save alot of hassle. (I only carry one) I have used up most of the brackets at this point. I did think of using one more bolt in my fix for this on the lower edge to contact that end of the rear half of the sleeve. I can see the bolts have forced the outer sleeve to the rack but the edge of the rear one is not quite if full contact, but it is tight. I have room for one more bolt on the one I installed. I did not think of that before I did the welding. So these three I have don't have the rear sleeve slid up enough for a third bolt. Not certain that is needed.
When I get the energy to remove mine I will add the third bolt and weld the sleeve to the back brace.
I'm just trying to work with what I have and secure the rack for my use. If anyone wants to try this the materials are easy to acquire rather than starting from scratch to build something else.
Until I get back in there I'm not sure if the 3/4 inch bolt and a nut will fit directly across from the diff at the tightest place the cover comes over but that is where it presses on the center of the sleeve. If I rotate the sleeve some on future proto-types it may work. This just takes some time to get all this done but I will stay on it.
The one I made and installed is working for now but should be welded for best results, I believe.

atvspeed4
11-13-2012, 08:14 PM
We have the measurements for the passenger mount but still need the diameter to make the press in aluminum bushings for the drivers side.

Hunner
11-18-2012, 03:37 PM
Did some serious testing the "two bolt with backing plate" mod on the sleeve. Mine is not welded, yet, on the backside half sleeve. I did have three of those made but not when I test fit mine. So I thought if it worked without welding, welding will improve it.
If the pass side is secure then there does not seem to be much movement on the drivers side bushes, but I do detect some on further study of that video. Fixing both sides should be even better.
This is tires on the ground, engine running. Alpha with 58,000 miles original rack and drivers side bushings. The movement in camera frame is the entire H3 going side to side when I turn the steering lock to lock.
click for video.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/th_Racksleeve2boltpassE.jpg (http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/?action=view&current=Racksleeve2boltpassE.mp4)
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/th_Racksleeve2boltdriverE.jpg (http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/?action=view&current=Racksleeve2boltdriverE.mp4)

Hunner
12-03-2012, 07:22 PM
[Quote] 06H3
Next mod done! The hunner franken steering sleeve. WOW! What a difference! With 100k miles on the original steering rack (its starting to leak and have a replacement) it has tons of play. I originally had the first gen hunner mount and I had a small metal plate behind it, on the trail it came off and I lost the entire hunner sleeve. Driving home was scary, I could feel the entire rack move before the actual tires would move, making a small adjustment require almost half a turn. I threw the stock bushing and sleeve back in when I got home. The mount was warped and the bushing was new, even with the new bushing and somewhat warped mount I had tons of play, both worn driver side bushings played a role also. Hunner sent me the franken-mount and even painted it red for me! I think he wanted me to install it ASAP. lol I have been busy but found some time and installed it. The steering is so tight and precise, its awesome! The driver side bushings are still shot but the franken mount makes up for so much play. I cant be any happier from the initial test drive. I cant wait to get it off road. Once I throw some delrin bushings in the new rack I have and install it with this I will be so happy! For added safety I may do the franken mount in the middle and the PCF mount on in the OEM location. Either way I am stoked. Thanks Hunner! [quote]
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/06H3MyFrankenmount.jpg


[quote]
I brought that over here from 06H3's build thread.
Great I'm glad you got it on there. I don't know if I can find shorter bolts or not. My supplier has not called me back. I wanted a little less than the 1/2 inch and it would still have some threads showing meaning it had not bottomed out before tightening the sleeve. That would give the top one more space between the diff and head. I don't think the diff can move forward much if any. You had some experience messing with some of that so do think that space as it is will be a problem? A 3/8 inch bolt may work. I ground mine off a little. I can get some special order.
I still have not had time to get my welded one on but just got the holes threaded. Hopefully tomorrow. Since you got one of the prototypes I wanted to ask if it was a problem sliding the back half in there with OEM tie rods. Apparently you had to remove the boot. I figured that. With my BP tie rods I can pull my rack out more so I think I can slide mine in past the boot.
I'm sure you will test it well so let us know your findings. [quote]

06 H3
12-03-2012, 07:57 PM
I will give a longer reply later as I'm on the mobile right now but it shouldn't move. I have no clearance issues to the rancho lift but a stock 3 will have tighter tolerances

Hunner
12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
I am going to grind down the bolt in the original hole where the OEM rubber bushing "tiddy" was until only a few threads are showing. It may end up about 3/8 or more long. I don't think it can contact the diff. now but I will attempt to make it shorter for future brackets. I needed it where it is to be in the center of the sleeve.

H3slate
12-17-2012, 12:47 AM
Here is the franken bracket I got from Hunner to "test". :cheers:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/knappe18/mini-P1020534.jpg

My previous setup was a partial hunner sleeve and partial "whatever curved scrap metal" was available.*

*All parts were generously supplied by Hunner, and having those parts saved my rack from disaster on the trail.

I took the old setup out and got ready to put in the new setup. After a fresh coat of paint, came to the first challenge.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/knappe18/mini-P1020539.jpg

With the sleeve welded to the backing bracket(a bracket that I think is totally necessary, my previous setup had bent in the metal on the frame behind the sleeve and bracket) getting the part to fit behind the rack was difficult. I loosened the driver's side mount and removed the rubber boot on the passenger side. This gave me enough room to leverage the rack away from the frame and get the sleeve in behind the steering rack.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/knappe18/mini-P1020540.jpg

Once that part was in, the rest was pretty straight forward. Getting the franken bolts started was hard, there is not a lot of room between the bracket and the front diff, once started they were no problem. I did apply some loctite to the bolts to keep them in place. It would be nice to have those bolts a little bit shorter, just for peace of mind for clearance, and to make it easier to get them started.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k301/knappe18/mini-P1020543.jpg

I am pretty happy with the results. This new bracket allows for no movement up, down, or backwards and forwards. Given the condition of my drivers side bushings, there is a little side to side movement, but it is less than before.

I am not done fixing the front end. I feel like I need to either replace the bushings on the drivers side to eliminate movement, or get a new rack. I also have some alignment issues, which look like stem from worn out control arm bushings. Hope to get those replaced soon and get a new alignment.

Thanks again Hunner for letting me be one of the test dummies. Will hopefully be hitting the trails to give the new bracket a true test. So far on my 60 mile daily commute, I have seen improvement in how the front end handles.

Hunner
12-17-2012, 02:32 AM
Thanks for following up on that install.
I replied to some of that in the other thread. I can't seem to find short bolts so on mine I will just grind them down for now. You might do that if you think there is a clearance problem with the diff. I don't know if the diff can move forward or not. I think leaving a few threads showing will insure they got the sleeve tight before the head contacts the bracket.
With three of these in service we will see what happens. I pushed mine today out and about with some repeated uneven hill climbs and river bank exploration. I ran with the front splash plate off so I could check it after running up and down some of these places several times and it's holding. Going up the hill I think I got air a couple of times. I will set up my remote trigger on camera next time.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7592_zpsd1e0874b.jpg
You can see how uneven this place is by how the rear looks. I ran both ways several times subjecting the front end to this kind of uneven ground to try to flex things. It was tough getting out to shoot the pictures at this angle.
It was so slick a couple of times even with the E brake set I just slid down the hill lol
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_7594_zps6d35583b.jpg

H3slate
12-17-2012, 11:40 AM
Did you paint your hood? Or is that a vinyl wrap? It looks good on your truck.

Hunner
12-17-2012, 02:27 PM
Thanks, yea I tried the Plastidip method. I posted that somewhere, I'm trying to find it. I added it to a thread, I thought lol
Oh well stuck it in my build thread
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?78-Hunter-Edition-H3-Alpha/page4

06 H3
12-18-2012, 08:46 PM
Did some wheeling today, wow! Much tighter

Hunner
12-18-2012, 09:26 PM
It might be a good idea to check the added bolts on the bracket to see if they stayed tight on the sleeve. I want to check mine but I keep having to go do stuff.
Maybe tomorrow afternoon. If I hear them or feel the thread locker break I may re coat and re-tighten. I just want to see if some force may have loosened them.

rsm688
10-23-2014, 12:26 PM
So these mount with no rubber at all, they just go in place of where the factory rubber bushing was? If so is there any more vibration/road feel transmitted through the front end since there is no rubber to dampen it?

Hunner
10-23-2014, 10:23 PM
I have not heard of anyone "feeling" any more road feel transmitted up the steering shaft. What you will feel if you have a blown out rubber bushing is more positive re-action when you turn the wheel.

It is a truck after all.
I don't think I have anymore.

5gn-h3t
10-29-2014, 06:35 PM
I used Hunner's rack bushing and didn't notice any more NVH. It worked very well. I got curious and took it a big step further. I replaced it with a billet aluminum mount that I made. I also replaced the rubber bushings on the other side of the rack with solid aluminum ones. At most, I have very, very little increase in NVH. It did make a huge improvement in the steering feel and handling.