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Hunner
02-27-2012, 08:42 PM
I will make space in my sponsor threads for this since it is not really a how to and is not proven yet.
This is some information I thought I would share while I can, and at some point develop a tie rod replacement, if needed.
It seems now in my area NAPA is supplying standard 16mm tie rods while the local ex-Hummer dealer told me he did not show any in the system. I don't know how accurate that is at this time but has happened before. There could be some dealers do not want to show theirs in the system, if that is possible.
I did find that I could have other tie rods modded to fit if that became necessary, but have not pursued the building of bigger shaft tie rods.
The reason I stopped there for now is that by doing this using the standard type fittings but a stronger tie rod shaft goes against the "fuse" theory and the reason I followed thru with the Bulletproof design work to fit an H3.

A 1500 series truck tie rod is 16mm but the inner end is bigger and so is the threaded part that goes in the rack. The machine shop I use said they could turn down the bigger diameter end, turn down the bigger threads and recut to fit the rack with the flat surface area the fits the end of the rack. The are also a tad long and would have to be cut and some threads added up the shaft.
Weird thing is 2500 series truck tie rods are 14mm and the inner connection has smaller threads than the 1500 but bigger than the H3.
Where I was going with this was Fabtech made those larger shaft tie rods that will fit an H2 but I think they use 2500 truck fittings that fit the H2. Anybody know that for sure, like have an H2? So same deal this place I use said they could take those and cut down the inner threads and assembly to fit the H3 rack.
That was only an attempt to see what would be required to do that should another source not be found.
Funny thing is my local yocal NAPA dealer out in the burbs is a block behind the old Hummer dealer on the main hwy and has H3 tie rods in stock!
There were a bunch of H3's bought down here locally that are daily drivers. I saw 5 today, all were women driving and three used ones at dealers.
The inner fitting has to go inside the outer rack tube thus requiring the ones I looked at to be turned down and the thread size changed.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_3905.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_3907.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_3906.jpg
1500 series truck top
H3 bottom
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_3908.jpg

Here was an idea that was before the BulletProof tie rod decision. I at one time had the contact info from the people that made this several hard drives ago. They at the time were not interested in doing any for the H3 without having one at their facility.
I went with the BP design after contacting them and their willingness to try it.
BP of course was concerned about the strength of this smaller clevis, but who knows. The have lots of articulation on the inner connection but the outer is still limited and looks to be about maxed out in this photo and the inner is barely using up it's ability to move. The connection between the two where the threads are looks to only be about 16mm and in my broken tie rod thread several of those broke at that point.
By the way this was on a Ford and I am still trying to find the info I had on it.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/Heim-Steering.jpg

atvspeed4
02-27-2012, 09:52 PM
That is almost exactly what we will be making. If the shop we contacted cannot come through with a ball and socket that will meet our needs we will be having a clevis made up that will use a heim inner and also a chromoly tie rod adjuster sleeve machined that will use a 1998 f250 outer tierod. We will be packaging this as a kit for hummer owners to buy. Having a clevis made that will pull the heim as tight to the rack as possible is very important. I wish we had more clearance between the outer tierod and the dust shield as I have access to a tierod with about 36 degrees of angle which is more than you can get with a horizontal heim but it has a 2 1/8" diameter head on it.

atvspeed4
02-27-2012, 10:12 PM
Also I found this info on napa's website http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=NCP2693718_0336012917&An=599001+102008+50221+2221013+25007&Ar=AND(P_RecType%3aA)

It shows there are two different threads, the rack side 16mm x 1 and the adjuster sleeve side at 16mm x 1.5
I am thinking this is a misprint as you said you tried a nut on it and found them both to be 16mm x 1.5

Hunner
02-27-2012, 11:22 PM
Yea the OEM and aftermarket replacement listed for the H3 have to be non specific sided. The rack threads in the recess are the same on both ends. I use the same size bolt to attach my clevis on both sides also, to confirm that. If you use the slots they are specific to each side as to the angle.

Hunner
02-27-2012, 11:51 PM
Having a clevis made that will pull the heim as tight to the rack as possible is very important. I wish we had more clearance between the outer tierod and the dust shield as I have access to a tierod with about 36 degrees of angle which is more than you can get with a horizontal heim but it has a 2 1/8" diameter head on it.

I found that with the inner end of a clevis having to go inside the rack tube far enough to turn full lock, the length of the clevis is then determined by how much room it takes to make it strong and have room for a bolt outside the rack tube and room for a spherical rod end to swing. Thus what you see is what you get so that is the reason it comes out that distance. That was already their race proven design and wanted me to use it if it would clear. I did have to shave the bolt head and bolt and I re-drilled the cotter pin holes to test them. Then send those back and he made new ones plated to clear the H3 frame.
It was too close before.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/_DSC7131.jpg
This is the other side but shows the clearance with the new bolt and nut.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/_DSC7137.jpg
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/BULLETPROOF-H3_comparison5_resize-1.jpg
In the case of the example I showed I have no idea if that clevis goes in that tube or what size that tube is. It looks as if they machined down the sides of the clevis quite a bit to get the nut and most probably the head of the bolt flush so that maybe it could enter the tube. I do not know the reliablilty of this design. I wish I could find that article. I'm still looking just satisfy my mind.

Yep sort of tight at that outer end. I have thought about trimming that dust shield several times and decided to leave it be.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/DHunter_bucket/DAH_4865-1.jpg
I hope by sharing some of this info you can up with a reliable tie rod that will not put undo stress on the rack for a reasonable amount of money for the people that want them.

alrock
02-28-2012, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the info, Hunner. I'm not sure if your BP tie rods fully debunked the "fuse" theory on the OEM tie rods as the BPs have flex to them so while they still do not transmit the full impact of a hard hit to the rack. Big, bad tie rods may still be a great answer and the fuse theory may still be debunked but I don't know if we're there yet.

Hunner
02-28-2012, 12:08 AM
I considered passing all this along as my contribution towards tie rod solutions.
As always I don't claim to know it all but I did do a lot of research and it can be used or not.

That was the goal of the BP, not have breaks but also not put strain on the rack by maxing out and pushing up on the rack which we now know also destroys the rubber bushing and ultimately the rack. It also took into account torsion bar adjustment to give a lift and extended shocks and sway bar links up to 24.5 and down to 23.5. I have used them both ways but highly recommend not to go up to 24.5. I would think a lift kit that uses raised knuckles to attempt to retain stock angled tie rods could also use the BP. I again do not think they are the only solution, just what works for me. I would like to see an alternative get made.

Fuses are good! and I agree it's better than breaking a rack and sometimes that works but not if they are too small for the load or too big and overload the circuit.:giggle
Maybe mine are more like a circuit breaker that can be reset rather than blowing?
Then how small or big is jussst right?
Heck I don't know, I'm making this stuff up:shifty:

We got to make these vehicles last without the frustration and concern of parts failing. Even though the tie rod situation seems to have slowed down a lot, it still happens.

Ole Mark Martin has a couple of dealerships here in Arkansas and still going hard, pun intended, so I watch him and judge how I'm doing going forward and keeping my opportunities open to go on long solo trips or get some company to run some more different areas out West with out me or the H3 falling apart as the miles on both add up.
Now re-start the dang race!!!

atvspeed4
03-02-2012, 10:01 PM
Thanks to 06 H3 I had a sample inner tierod to take some measurements off and send out to the company that was considering building HD inner ball sockets for the H3. I told them that we were going to be building a bolt on tie rod kit for the hummer h3 vehicles and possibly the Chevrolet colorados and they were willing to design the inner joint that is necessary. I will send them the specs on our outer tierod as well to see if they can build a stronger version that that can be rebuilt but as of now the outer joint will be a heim with an adapter pin to match the taper of the knuckle. The fact that the inner ball socket needs to return into the steering rack is what causes the joint to be so small and necessitates the tierod to taper down so small at the ball socket. Anyone have other ideas to work around this? Someone really needs to get a steering rack out of a 2008 silverado like Bebe did and see what it would take to adapt to the stock mounts and steering shaft.

Hunner
03-03-2012, 01:07 AM
I looked at one the other day. Huge driver side bracket assembly. Much taller than our cross member right there. The pass side has a large cast aluminum looking bracket that looks ok but probably is larger than what we have.
The rack did not look much larger in diameter. Not so sure it would be any better for a stock H3.
Tie rods would be too long also.
I would have gotten a picture but with that front spoiler they have on there I could barely get my head under there far enough to see it much less a camera. I was looking for one on the rack in the shop but they were all on the floor.
Looking forward to what those guys come up with that you contacted.
Whoever made the Fabtech tie rods for the H2, unless they had the equipment, apparently were capable of crushing the inner cup on the ball end.

atvspeed4
03-05-2012, 06:57 PM
I just received an email update, the company we are working with agreed to make the inner ball and socket for us. Not sure on time frame as they are pretty busy but I will keep everyone updated.

atvspeed4
03-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Latest update: The shop picked up a factory inner ball socket and have begun discussing a design plan with us.

JoshuaL
03-25-2012, 05:32 PM
:corn:

Schwarttzy
07-13-2012, 11:19 AM
http://schwarttzy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm_d39sa07_1.gif

atvspeed4
07-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Still isnt done... We have called the company twice a week since march and they still are not done. They even made the parts for another application we are building but have not finished testing them and therefore will not ship them to us.

auggie mathis
07-13-2012, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the update

3Hummers
07-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Keep us posted.

atvspeed4
08-02-2012, 08:30 PM
Well I am tired of waiting for the shop to build us custom inner tierods so we are taking a stab at a new approach. Just ordered some parts and they should be in next Wednesday. I am going to post up pics and the plan at selective times.... Hope this works!!

Hunner
08-02-2012, 09:34 PM
I can relate to that. I think in my case on some other items it is the fact they don't see a huge market and understandably do not want to mess with it but still string me along thinking they may have some down time to fill.
In the case of the tie rods Randy at BP took it on as a challenge and seemed to enjoy the process of building them.
I doubt he has sold many if any. I personally do not know of anyone else that actually got them.
I passed on lots of info to two people but never heard back from them.

atvspeed4
08-07-2012, 08:26 PM
2 of the parts came in today. Hope to drop off plans at the machine shop tomorrow for part one....

atvspeed4
08-09-2012, 09:24 PM
Shop called today to say they started on the parts, hope to have them by monday the latest. I will start another thread to not clutter yours and will post up pics.