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Braille Lithium Ion Batteries?

ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
Braille Battery

Anyone familiar with these batteries? The claim some outstanding numbers, and some models are incredibly light. How does Lithium Ion batteries hold up to our charging systems? Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA
 

Scarsman

Sponsor
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1,561
Location
Monroe, WA
Holy schniekies!! Did you see the prices on those things!?!?!?

Looks like they would work just fine. Says they are made to work with alternator charging systems.

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ReconH3

Guardian Angel
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2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
I got freaked by the prices too. I found some models on Amazon at prices comparable to Optimas.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

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battman

Probationary Member
Messages
4
Location
florida
Lithium battery

Hi all
I can answer any of your questions regarding swapping out your 50 lb lead battery for a 4 lb lithium
Been doing it for over a year now
 

M22KLARS

Unsafe At Any Speed
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2,315
Location
Minnesota
Well what's the news on them then? Are they good? Do they last long and work with multiple high amp draws?
 

Scarsman

Sponsor
Messages
1,561
Location
Monroe, WA
Are you a rep for them? Can you explain this "pulse cranking amps"? You show huge numbers for PCA, but how do those numbers compare to a standard battery under the same test? Say an OE H2 battery rated for 880 CCA, what would you see out of that battery for PCA?
 

ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
How would they handle heavy discharging from harsh winching conditions? I have a 250 amp alternator to keep it well charged. I never leave the battery with out charge for more than a week. If I'm not using the truck, it's connected to a trickle charger.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

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Scarsman

Sponsor
Messages
1,561
Location
Monroe, WA
I got freaked by the prices too. I found some models on Amazon at prices comparable to Optimas.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

I found some too, but they were not the lithium, and were at the low cranking amp range.


Imagine this battery, http://www.braillebattery.com/ , 900 cranking amps, with a size of 10" x 3.25" x 6.5' at 9 pounds. You could mount two of those in the OE spot and still have room. And it would only cost you $3600!
 
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ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
Friend that has a store that is willing to not take advantage of the huge profit margin.




"Ex Umbris Venimus"

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Hunner

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,334
Location
Arkansas
I'm thinking for now anyway they call them "Braille" because they steal you blind?
Interesting concept though.
 

battman

Probationary Member
Messages
4
Location
florida
Hi
ok........ I'll try to satisfy all
I make my own lithium batteries. LithiumMoto
Some of the #'s I see out there frankly I dont believe myself.
Discharge amps from the highest rate cells available are measured differently than lead acid. So, hard to compare.
lead batteries must be bigger to compensate for the 'wet noodle' curved discharge compared to the flat line of Lithium.
lithium holds a charge unlike lead, so, if you go a few weeks, months, the lithium charge will still be there ( assuming there is no parasitic drain ) no trickle charge needed
A winch - the thing that pulls u out of trouble ( not the other kind ) .. yes, the lithium will put out the required amps needed for a longer time. because of the flat discharge curve. If your needing the battery to drain down, ie, other than starting usage, then, u need a battery with circuit board to keep the cells balanced vs, a battery strictly for starting the engine. A clamp ammeter would measure a winch current load. Then, It's a matter of how long a time it needs to run. bigger = longer
You can not jump start a dead lithium battery so, I would use a separate battery for starting and winching.
cold temps - lithium holds the charge vs lead that loses the charge.
 

f5moab

Mr. Beretta
Messages
1,986
Location
Hiding in a potato patch in Idaho
Chevy Volt, Laptop batteries, phone batteries, etc., do have lithium ion batteries that do catch fire. Sometimes days after the initial breakage. Granted most of the smaller batteries are cobalt based. Howevr, the volt batteries I believe are (or were supposed to be) lithium nickel cobalt aluminun oxide or lithium titanate (didn't hang around GM long enough to find out what the volt was actually released witht).

So, what are your batteries made with? What substructure, what are the anode/cathod materials?

Just curious, I love lead-acid batteries, so not planning on changing anytime soon.
 

Portager

■ ☼▐▐▐▐▐▐▐ ☼■
Messages
1,506
Location
Silverado
I evaluate and utilize all types of batteries for my work. Here is a very informative site that I have found and utilize a lot. :link: I should mention that, IMHO this site is overly negative on lead acid and biased towards the other battery technologies that the author’s company provide charging products for. However, most of the information is very good.

In comparison to lead acid batteries, Li-ion has about 3 times the energy density of most lead acid batteries. However, since the power curve of lead acid drops off with discharge, and the life is adversely affected by depth of discharge (DOD), lead acid batteries are generally only discharged to 50% depth of discharged so the effective Li-ion energy density is almost 6 times higher. So if you have a 50 lbs lead acid battery you might get the same amount of power out of a 8.3 lb Li-ion battery.

However; you should also consider peak load current, over charge tolerance, operating temperature range, self discharge rate and cost.

Overcharge tolerance: In the link I provided above, you will see that they lead acid battery over change tolerance as “high” and Li-ion as “very low”. If you are using maintenance free valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries, such as AGM (Optima is an AGM), then I would change that to moderate. Li-ion however has very low overcharge tolerance especially in high ambient temperatures. I THINK you need a special Li-ion compatible voltage regulator with battery temperature feedback if you're going to switch to Li-ion.

Operating temperature: The link I provided shows the operating temperature range for lead acid and Li-ion as -20 to +60 degrees C which equates to -4 degrees F to 140 degrees F. In the case of lead acid, my experience is that many lead acid batteries will work at -40 degrees F (-40 degrees C). My experience is Li-ion is their output drops of dramatically below 0 degree F or -32 degrees C. Also Li-ion are very unforgiving in high temperatures.

Cost: The link I provided above shows a 4:1 difference is cost.

For a race car where cost is irrelevant and weight is king Li-ion might be a good choice. For an off road vehicle where weight is not that significant but reliability and dependability are king, I think it might not be a good choice, especially in very hot or very cold conditions.

The preceeding comments are only the opinions of the author. I have not interest in or allifiation with any battery manufacturer or charger producer.
 

ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
Excellent writeup. Thanks for sharing. The reason for my post, was to get feedback from people with good knowhow and experience. Thanks guys.


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