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Another solid axle build...

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
Here’s the latest THORparts build. A 2010 T Alpha. This one is getting a custom high pinion D44 with RCVs, Warn hardcore lockouts, E-locker, and 4.88 gearing...
df7d8d42f03e30fda8d141466d581f9c.jpg

6fced1fba2afd84e5bd0d53316cbf1de.jpg

da829f795f49a6ae8cf255fefeff2475.jpg

More on this build coming soon!
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
I hate to say it again
This is 6k+ lbs vehicle - it needs 1 ton axels

No one I know is building 44s anymore
Everyone step into 60s and up few years ago
Even Chris finally moved on.


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jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Location
Cabool MO
I hate to say it again
This is 6k+ lbs vehicle - it needs 1 ton axels

No one I know is building 44s anymore
Everyone step into 60s and up few years ago
Even Chris finally moved on.


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How many of these dana 44 sas are going to be hard core wheelers? I have broken a bunch of dana 44's in the past. Probable 30 + axles and a few ring and pinions. I myself am looking at putting a dana 60 under mine. But if these are not going to be pushed real hard the dana 44 is a big upgrade over the factory stuff. If they destroy one it can be upgraded later.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,584
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I hate to say it again
This is 6k+ lbs vehicle - it needs 1 ton axels

No one I know is building 44s anymore
Everyone step into 60s and up few years ago
Even Chris finally moved on.


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-I have a dana 44.
-I am happy with my dana 44.
-Its similar to stock but performs better.
-R&D has already been done for the dana 44 and its been proven to be a good fit on the H3.
-I wont do anything hardcore enough to warrant a 60.
-If I do, ill upgrade as its already set up for a solid axle.
-Its my money and I spent it how I saw fit for my needs.
-Not everyone is out here trying to run/compete KOH style.
-Chris does some pretty hardcore wheeling, and yea if I was doing KOH and the ultimate adventure I'd want a stronger set-up as well.
-If you want everyone to install dana 60s, then you do the R&D, run the shop and offer the service.
-Also its pretty annoying when you're constantly posting how running a dana 44 is wrong and it needs to be a dana 60 etc, how about we praise CJ for all of the R&D work he has done on getting a solid axle swap done for a H3 that makes it look as close to OEM as possible while strengthening and increasing performance without it looking like a backyard hatchet job.

-end rant.


How many of these dana 44 sas are going to be hard core wheelers? I have broken a bunch of dana 44's in the past. Probable 30 + axles and a few ring and pinions. I myself am looking at putting a dana 60 under mine. But if these are not going to be pushed real hard the dana 44 is a big upgrade over the factory stuff. If they destroy one it can be upgraded later.

yes this exactly
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
I don’t think u understand my point
I am big fan of their work and time they put in in R&D [emoji106]

My point is, if u building anything for wheeling u want strongest axels possible. And as u stated 44 is not much of upgrade vs OEM.
Hell rear OEM is ~55 and 60 is not much of upgrade for it too.

Difference in price is not that much. But doing it again is gonna cost u more in $$ and time.
44 can barely handle 37” tire.

And the way off-road trend now 40” is standard on any decent build. They are DDrivable too.

My Alpha is getting old H2 or d80 and 8 bolt front hubs on d60 later this year among other upgrades.




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fanugy

Well-Known Member
Messages
145
Location
Phoenix, AZ
The solid axle H3/H3t is a great look. I watched the YouTube videos from 4speedfunk and want my next T to have the same stance. But, 60’s May be easier to get here. I am also very new to the suspension world.

CJ- is it apples to Oranges with the 44 v 60? I assume diameter of axle is different and the 8-lug. How much of what you have already fabricated transfers? I think the hub assembly keeping the wheel sensors and abs and computer happy are key as well.

I watched all your YouTube videos and have been stalking Craigslist for axles- but that hub and no dash lights are very appealing.

I don’t wheel a lot, usually duck hunting via pond jumping but is is very remote on reservation territory and I don’t want to ever spend time there or walk the 60 miles to civilization (maybe 10-15 miles to cell service). It is very rough terrain and any water swells the soils up 2-3x- nasty stuff but an absolute riot.


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Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
I am not going to hijack this tread.
I’ll post proven set up on different one.


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cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,584
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I don’t think u understand my point
I am big fan of their work and time they put in in R&D [emoji106]

My point is, if u building anything for wheeling u want strongest axels possible. And as u stated 44 is not much of upgrade vs OEM.
Hell rear OEM is ~55 and 60 is not much of upgrade for it too.

Difference in price is not that much. But doing it again is gonna cost u more in $$ and time.
44 can barely handle 37” tire.

And the way off-road trend now 40” is standard on any decent build. They are DDrivable too.

My Alpha is getting old H2 or d80 and 8 bolt front hubs on d60 later this year among other upgrades.




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You just have to remember there are so many different factors that go into it.
End goal, purpose, cost, high end vs low buck, strength, type of wheeling, etc.

For example:
1. I do mild wheeling, more overlanding type with mild obstacles, mild enough that stock IFS is more than enough however I wanted something more durable and peace of mind, that I wouldn't second guess.
2. I wanted a lift, I had a used rancho sitting in a box but I realized that long term parts availability was much higher for a dana 44 and 10 bolt than the stock ifs front, which GM and aftermarket suppliers are sure to cease production on in the near future. This would result in expensive custom pieces being made as parts wear.
3. I was at a point in my life where I could invest the right kind of money into my H3 and get it done the right way. (no kids, no wife, no debt).
4. Thorparts had built several SAS H3s, and they are local to me, plus he had already figured out all the R&D for the dana 44 to fit and work, I wasn't about to be the guinea pig to rework a dana 60 into the mix.

No where in that logic does a dana 60 work for me. The setup I have fits all of my needs perfectly.
If I want something to just romp and do hardcore stuff until it breaks, ill get the next $2k XJ off of craigslist and bump steer my way to the offroad park.
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
You end goals may be different but pice of mind worth $$$.
I guess I have seen to many IFS and 44 snap like a twigs when wheeling mild trails including my T and H2. This is why I only have one IFS rig left and it’s in storage.

I have 44 on YJ, but it’s Super build and it weighs only 5k.
T is going to be 7-8k with gear and people when u over landing.


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Traxx

Well-Known Member
Messages
682
Location
PNW
Good for you. Since this thread offers nothing to you how about moving along and not clogging it up with a useless 60 this 60 that so the rest of us can see how to spend a bunch of money on an sas project.


You end goals may be different but pice of mind worth $$$.
I guess I have seen to many IFS and 44 snap like a twigs when wheeling mild trails including my T and H2. This is why I only have one IFS rig left and it’s in storage.

I have 44 on YJ, but it’s Super build and it weighs only 5k.
T is going to be 7-8k with gear and people when u over landing.


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gfbh3t

Well-Known Member
Messages
139
Location
Lockport, NY
Nice build, I have wheeled with that T many times and after breaking front diff and a few cv's he decided to go with the 44. So far my 44 has never left me stranded. IMG_2165.JPG
 
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Lchase

Well-Known Member
Messages
185
Location
Georgia
Nice build, I have wheeled with that T many times and after breaking front diff and a few cv's he decided to go with the 44. So far my 44 has never left me stranded. View attachment 24843
And gfbh3t does not go easy on his rig out on the trail I know that for a fact and it's still holding up.

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jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Location
Cabool MO
So what's the real cost to all this, parts labor and all that?

That is a loaded question. Depends on what parts and you said with labor. I can see this easily in the 5 to 12k. Most shops will have a labor rate of $80 to 120 an hour for this. That can add up quickly.
 

SolidusJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,028
Location
FT. Carson, CO
I'm asking specifically about 4Speed, seeing he's one of the leading experts in this subject. What's the finale price tag when he knocks it out.
 

jakesz28

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Location
Cabool MO
Still a loaded question on parts. Most of his SAS start with factory axles or factory replacements. This build has RCV's which are a $1500 part. Unless you are asking about an identical build the price can vary. Just my take on an open question.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,584
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I'm asking specifically about 4Speed, seeing he's one of the leading experts in this subject. What's the finale price tag when he knocks it out.
You'll need to ask him about that. The estimates that have been floating around here and the rest of the internet are accurate to a certain degree.

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SolidusJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,028
Location
FT. Carson, CO
Nevermind, like pulling teeth to say, "my setup came in at $x,xxx."

I could bulid my dream axle and then have him install the darn thing.
 

Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
Here is rough EVO price
H2 60/80 combo
Front ARB, 5.38,RCV, ABS,large brake kit,hi-steer.
Rear custom 1off build full floater and OEM H2 outers, keeps e-brake and ABS, ARB
I believe ~26k axels only + donor axel

H3 was done by them before I owned it
D60,arb,6 bolt hubs
#s that I heard for full SAS swap were ~20k
(No RAM assist)

And Dynatrack hublocks are $600 a set( neveeer broke them) vs warn that always breaks.


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Mb30sdl

Hamster that pokes Bears
Messages
1,586
Location
Irvine,ca
Nevermind, like pulling teeth to say, "my setup came in at $x,xxx."

I could bulid my dream axle and then have him install the darn thing.

Prices are on case by case basis.
Like plumbing or AC repair.
Depending on your zip code and what kind of cars parked in driveway.

[emoji3][emoji3]


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4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
SolidusJ...costs can vary widely on the SAS/SOA. It is NOT determined by your zip code or the cars parked in your driveway, as others suggest. Around here...its straight-up cost in time & material, the way any legitimate business operates. Its the same price weather you drive a Chevette or a Lambo.

It will cost approx. $4000 for the 3-link SAS front suspension...$1500 for a SOA rear. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE FRONT AXLE ITSELF. Front axles can cost you as low as $250 (for a junkyard Dana) or as much as $8000 (for a custom housing ProRock)...and everything in between. Most of the Dana 44s I build for H3's are in the $3000-$4000 range. This will get you a stock GM low pinion housing with all new bearings, seals, gears of your choice, flat-top knuckles, stock shafts, single track diff, and THORparts ABS compatible braking system. A custom high-pinion housing, chromoly shafts, lockers, or other high-end goodies will quickly drive the axle price up above $6000. This is why its hard to just throw a number out there and call it done. Some guys don't care about dash lights, ride quality, or electronic systems but, all of these prices below are for legit daily-driver rigs. Here are some rule-of-thumb numbers...

Budget $5500 for the SAS/SOA suspension parts (brackets, springs, shocks, steering, driveshafts etc.)
Budget $3500 for a completely rebuilt stock GM housing Dana 44. (Add $1000 for a locker. Add $800 for chromo shafts.)
Budget $7500 for labor (at my shop)....free if you DIY.

Turn-key conversions typically cost $14k to $17k at our shop. If you want to do it yourself, with leaf-springs and ignore the electronics...it can be done for under $3k.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,212
Location
Tardville
Back to the OP...

This truck has been put thru the ringer. It has a long history of offroad abuse, and among the many updates of the SAS/SOA project...comes some other maintenance items. Here are a couple of them that many H3 owners might find useful.

FIRST is the the rear locker. You will often find rounded-off pins and wollered-out slots in the locker side gear. This happens when you "crash-lock" an Eaton E-locker. Its almost un-avoidable, even if you drive very conservatively. The Eaton actually dis-engages when you change directions, and care must be taken when wheeling. Many drivers simply lock everything as soon as they go offroad. This is not only un-necessary but, it also ads considerable run-time and wear to the locking mechanism. I only use my lockers when all else fails, and I also try to allow at least 10-15 feet of distance between pushing the button and hitting the obstacle I'm trying to traverse. Obviously, this cannot always be done but, I try my best to follow these two rules. All the same...the Eaton does wear out, and this is what they look like...
IMG_1041.jpg
The E-locker's spring loaded pins will engage into these slots, and if there is any throttle being applied during the engagement transition period...the result is this...
IMG_1040.jpg
The same applies to the pins. This is shot of them inside the diff...
IMG_1042.jpg
Once removed, the wear is even more obvious...
IMG_1048.jpg
Eaton makes several rebuild kits for the GM 8.6 E-locker. They are broken down into several sub-kits with whatever parts you are looking to replace. This kit #29296-00S is for the side-gear and pins, includes (2) side gears, (2) spider gears, (6) locker pins, (1) retainer, and also a fresh cross pin and retaining bolt. This kit is around $150 and its available from Jegs or Summit. Eaton also offers another kit for the locker engagement ramp assembly, (which is also prone to breakage). And a third kit that includes the electro-magnetic coil that operates the locker. A word of caution...these kits are very difficult to find outside of the Eaton website, so I recommend getting the specific part number from Eaton and then use that number at Jegs or Summit. To compound the problem...Jegs and Summit both use generic photos (or none at all) to describe the parts inside each kit. They are completely incorrect descriptions, so you must search by the actual part number.

You will need to remove the carrier bearing on one side of the E-locker case to access the snap ring that holds all this together. So plan on replacing the bearing as they are usually destroyed when pressing them off.

SECOND is the shackle bushings on the rear leaf springs. If you offroad your H3, chances are these bushings are shot. They are pressed into the frame rails at the factory, and they can be next to impossible to remove. So I made a specific tool to un-install the old rusty ones, and re-install brand new ones. I grabbed some scrap tubing and turned them down to fit the barrel of the bushing, and then used a piece of 1/2" hardened rod and some nuts to complete the tool. This thing worked like a charm, and if you plan to replace your shackle bushings...its worth your time to make something similar...
IMG_1049.jpg
 
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