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Another trans cooling thread...

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
If your fan clutch needs to be replaced, that is an obvious problem. Besides making your engine run hot, your AC won't cool worth a crap, and the resulting high discharge pressure/temps will break down the oil and kill the compressor over time. FWIW, I have never had a fan clutch that engages as low as I like. I usually "adjust" the thermostatic spring to bring it in 10 degrees sooner.

Thermostats don't really fail often unless they are poor quality (stick with AC Delco) or the coolant is in poor shape. They are easy to test: put a pan of water on the stove, plop the thermostat in it, and a thermometer that goes to at least 220 degrees. Turn on the burner and watch the thermostat valve as the water heats up. It should crack open at 190 and be wide open by 210. It should not stick and jump open at any point - opening should be smooth and gradual with increasing temperature.

I don't know how well air bleeds from the I5 cooling system, but entrapped air will make any engine run hot even if the cooling system is in excellent shape. Some systems readily bleed the air on their own, while others will make you talk to yourself. Do you recall if the system ran cooler before the first 'stat change?
 
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06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
The fan clutch was intermittent and when I ran into my last problem coming home from work It was working just fine.

I don't recall it running cooler but I can't say for sure that was 3-4 years ago and the truck was almost bone stock.
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
If your fan clutch needs to be replaced, that is an obvious problem. Besides making your engine run hot, your AC won't cool worth a crap, and the resulting high discharge pressure/temps will break down the oil and kill the compressor over time. FWIW, I have never had a fan clutch that engages as low as I like. I usually "adjust" the thermostatic spring to bring it in 10 degrees sooner.

Thermostats don't really fail often unless they are poor quality (stick with AC Delco) or the coolant is in poor shape. They are easy to test: put a pan of water on the stove, plop the thermostat in it, and a thermometer that goes to at least 220 degrees. Turn on the burner and watch the thermostat valve as the water heats up. It should crack open at 190 and be wide open by 210. It should not stick and jump open at any point - opening should be smooth and gradual with increasing temperature.

I don't know how well air bleeds from the I5 cooling system, but entrapped air will make any engine run hot even if the cooling system is in excellent shape. Some systems readily bleed the air on their own, while others will make you talk to yourself. Do you recall if the system ran cooler before the first 'stat change?

I agree with everything you say - I have a 75 Corvette that I had just rebuilt its motor - the thermostat (stock style) never opened right. I replaced it with a high-flow thermostat, that solved all of its cooling problems.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
Swapped out the fluid, filter and gasket yesterday. All was well during the test drive. the fluid swap is such a mess....I'm not pulling that pan again unless I get a new one with a drain plug. Not for performance or anything just ease of fluid changes. I may order an oem one from Zach drill a hole and weld in a plug or get the derale one. It's deeper which I'm not a fan of as I'm concerned it will get in the way of other stuff. Either way seeing the fluid is new that will be later on down the road.

I'm leaving tonight for the east coast and won't be back till the 17th so I will have some parts ordered and waiting when I get back
 

RamRod

Well-Known Member
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3,914
Location
AB, Canada
What are some symptoms of a tranny that's been over heated?.... Wow sounds like the start of a punch line to a joke, but seriously I haven't had a chance to hook up a temp gauge to my Alpha T so I am wondering if my recent tranny probs are in part from a over heating issue...

Also has a temp gauge been sorted outfit use on a Alpha (talking scan gauge or similar)
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
Yea a temp gauge will work with a scan gauge and an alpha. It is very possible heat is causing the issue. I have been researching transmissions lately and a lot of people bag on the 4l60e as a pile of **** trans and others don't mind them. I will say heat is what kills my trans. When it's cool it's great.

You must remember your putting out DOUBLE the power I am, I wish I had that power but with that said your power with the V8 and supercharger can kill a trans quickly. When you do a rebuild I would definitely go with the raptor kit from PATC. All the plastic parts in a trans are replaced with billet parts and upgraded servos and bands and the list goes on. You can build a 4l60e to handle 500 hp it's just stock they won't last as long as it would with less power.

I'd love a 4l80e but it is bigger and requires modifications to the trans tunnel and computer mods. I think a built 4l60e will do the job just don't leave it stock when it's time for a rebuilt and the cooler the better, I've heard that running a trans at 240 daily compared to 170 will kill a trans life in half.

I know that was a long winded response but I need to know more about your trans issue first. What's going on?
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
Max what's your take on derale coolers?

I listed my observations on coolers quite a few posts back in the thread. It depends on the type: plate and fin are best (i.e. Setrab, or the ones CX Racing sells). Stacked plate are next by a wide margin (Long makes the typical stacked plate cooler, which outfits like B&M resell). Finally, tube and fin come in last by an even wider margin. Post a lonk on the Derale cooler and I can tell you what type it is.

Yea a temp gauge will work with a scan gauge and an alpha. It is very possible heat is causing the issue. I have been researching transmissions lately and a lot of people bag on the 4l60e as a pile of **** trans and others don't mind them. I will say heat is what kills my trans. When it's cool it's great.

The main problem with the 4L60e is that GM uses it where they shouldn't. It has limited clutch area, poor oil flow over the clutches, poor oil flow to the planetaries, and is in general a light duty design. In a passenger car behind reasonable HP it is fine, but it has no place in a truck or SUV. Heat kills any transmission. The issue with the 4L60e is that it gets hot FAST in heavy vehicles or when you get anywhere near it's rated torque capacity.

You must remember your putting out DOUBLE the power I am, I wish I had that power but with that said your power with the V8 and supercharger can kill a trans quickly. When you do a rebuild I would definitely go with the raptor kit from PATC. All the plastic parts in a trans are replaced with billet parts and upgraded servos and bands and the list goes on. You can build a 4l60e to handle 500 hp it's just stock they won't last as long as it would with less power.

It also will only handle that 500HP in a light weight vehicle, like a Camaro. Put it behind a 500HP engine in an H3 and it will last about as long as a fart in a hurricane.

I'd love a 4l80e but it is bigger and requires modifications to the trans tunnel and computer mods. I think a built 4l60e will do the job just don't leave it stock when it's time for a rebuilt and the cooler the better, I've heard that running a trans at 240 daily compared to 170 will kill a trans life in half.

I know that was a long winded response but I need to know more about your trans issue first. What's going on?

I'm pretty sure a 4L80 will fit in an H3 tunnel. Computer mods are limited to swapping a couple pins in the trans connector and reprogramming your shift points and timing - no big deal. The main problem for you is that you have an I5. The Atlas engines have a unique bellhousing, and 4L80's were never mated to them, so no 4L80 case exists that will mate to the I5. An adapter plate would be needed, but even that is problematic due to the starter location.

The best way to adapt a 4L80 to an I5 H3 is to bolt an LS motor onto the front of it and stuff the whole combo in the engine bay ;)
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,447
Location
Scottsdale
Chris, what's saying is you need to drive your truck to AZ and have him work on it for a while. Oh, and leave a big blank check too.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
Sounds good to me :) ill just need Dave's check book lol my dream is a 6.2 with a 4l80e behind it. That seems like an awesome setup!

I reread your post numerous times on the type of cooler. The derale is plate and fin, which is the most efficient and rugged. I was just asking about the brand name. They make a lot of "kits" for the jeepers. I won't run anything but plate and fin after what u said and what I have read online.

I could of sworn the 80 didn't fit, I thought someone looked into it years ago but ill take your word for it especially because its something I want to hear!
 

RamRod

Well-Known Member
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3,914
Location
AB, Canada
I think if your going to go with an 80 you would need a longer front drive shaft, a shorter rear drive shaft, a modded axle cross member (moved 4" rear ward to compensate for the longer length trans) new wire harness to adjust for the different wiring pin connections, a transfer case adapter... So far that what I was able to learn today but I am sure I am missing lots....
By that time I think it would be easier to upgrade the 60 with the raptor kit as noted above.... I'll be calling them tomorrow...
 

Expendable

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,025
Location
Burbank, CA
I was thinking, if you're going to install an aftermarket trans cooler, wouldn't it be a good idea to put in an external filter in as well? Wouldn't directly help with cooling but would help with keeping the fluid in better shape. plus then if you had a trans pan with a drain you wouldn't have to drop the pan to change the filter.
 

bebe

Moderator
Messages
1,375
Location
Dayton, NV
I think if your going to go with an 80 you would need a longer front drive shaft, a shorter rear drive shaft, a modded axle cross member (moved 4" rear ward to compensate for the longer length trans) new wire harness to adjust for the different wiring pin connections, a transfer case adapter... So far that what I was able to learn today but I am sure I am missing lots....
By that time I think it would be easier to upgrade the 60 with the raptor kit as noted above.... I'll be calling them tomorrow...

Exactly...
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
Sounds good to me :) ill just need Dave's check book lol my dream is a 6.2 with a 4l80e behind it. That seems like an awesome setup!

I reread your post numerous times on the type of cooler. The derale is plate and fin, which is the most efficient and rugged. I was just asking about the brand name. They make a lot of "kits" for the jeepers. I won't run anything but plate and fin after what u said and what I have read online.

I could of sworn the 80 didn't fit, I thought someone looked into it years ago but ill take your word for it especially because its something I want to hear!

Well, no guarantees, but an 80 isn't THAT much larger than a 60. Like I said, though, you can't mate an 80 to an I5, so it's a moot point.

I think if your going to go with an 80 you would need a longer front drive shaft, a shorter rear drive shaft, a modded axle cross member (moved 4" rear ward to compensate for the longer length trans) new wire harness to adjust for the different wiring pin connections, a transfer case adapter... So far that what I was able to learn today but I am sure I am missing lots....

A new harness? There is a lot of bad info out there. All that is required is swapping locations of a couple pins in the connector, which takes all of 5 minutes. Transfer case mounting patterns are identical, but the 80 requires a 32 spline input in the t-case.

As I've already said, it is really a moot point for I5 owners since you cannot mate an 80 to an I5. Not to mention the 2.48 first gear in the 80 would make takeoff in the I5 even more gutless than it is already.

Now, if we're talking a V8, the I wouldn't even consider anything else. Particularly given the H3's weight. However, I understand that most people don't want to do the mods required, considering the cost involved. It's all a tradeoff.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
I procrastinated long enough! I finally ordered what I needed.

https://www.etrailer.com/Transmission-Coolers/Hummer/H3/2006/D13503.html?vehicleid=20061229503

http://www.amazon.com/Improved-Raci...35&sr=8-1&keywords=improved+racing+thermostat

The trans cooler I ordered the other day and will be here today or tomorrow but the install will have to wait till after xmas. The thermostat will be here between the 23rd and the 27th.

I wasnt too happy spending 170 on a ****in thermostat but it was all I could find in the 160 range. I could find 180 stats all day but this is the only 160 one I could find but at the end of the day completely bypassing the inline cooler to avoid contamination and running cooler temps to avoid blowing a trans this is a small price to pay compared to the other possible outcomes.

I went 160 on the thermostat because I live in the desert and in the summer I would run 240+ constantly and one time lost all gears in drive and had to drive in 1st to get home. It was bumper to bumper traffic around 115 out and it was right after my winch install which basically killed airflow on the bottom half of the rad (where the factory trans cooler is.) I changed the fluid when I got home and luckily everything went back to normal, I have no doubt I killed a chunk of life off the trans but at 117k I am already putting money aside so I am ready when it dies.

I contemplated running no thermostat but in the winter I will wake up to 29-30 degree weather and I like to play in the snow and will reach even cooler temps when I head up to the mtns so I think 160 is the happy medium for all types of weather. Running mottino wash(backside of Big bear by Johnson valley, gets very hot) this past summer was a wake up call. I was running in sand to get to the trail in 100+ and my trans was cooking! After the trail going back up to big bear via dirt roads I CB'ed to stop because I hit 248 on the trans. My buddy in his TJ didnt have a trans cooler or trans temp gauge and sure enough a week later his jeep was getting the trans replaced, he overheated it. I also was concerned out on LCC one time running hot temps. This was happening often. So this was long over due but now I hope to run trails and drive this thing on the road in any temperature and still not have to worry about the trans.

I will give a review after I run it for a while, I know others have been itching to do this.
 
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digglesworth

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,789
Location
illinois
I'll be interested in the result too. Damn that thermostat was way expensive... I think I might go with a 180. I don't spend as much time in the desert as you do I'm sure. It does get to over 100 here in the Midwest but probably not for prolonged periods of time like the desert. Let us know how it works out.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
I am missing the BTU rating on it? Checked it out, doesn't seem to specify. I haven't bought one yet, just not sure what cooling capacity I need.

According to derale's website its 20500 GVW but doesnt state the BTU.

http://www.derale.com/products/cool...tric-fan-mounting-bracket-kit-dual-fan-detail

I'll be interested in the result too. Damn that thermostat was way expensive... I think I might go with a 180. I don't spend as much time in the desert as you do I'm sure. It does get to over 100 here in the Midwest but probably not for prolonged periods of time like the desert. Let us know how it works out.

180 should be good, I went 160 because I can get off work at 9:00 at night and drive home and still bring my temps up to 220, which is still way to high.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Louisiana
I used a Hayden 678 for my install. It fits well in the front. Strapped it right to the condenser with the supplied tabs. So far haven't seen temps over 155 but that was just in some limited street driving. Its a plate fin cooler and the price is right. Ordered mine from amazon. I can't comment on the install since I replaced all my lines with rubber trans cooler lines with the engine swap. Long term details to follow.
 
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chaos254

Well-Known Member
Messages
577
Location
United States
So is everyone cutting their hardlines, flaring them and then running rubber hoses to the cooler and back?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
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