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06 H3's Squeakin H3 Build

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Louisiana
I did a little bit of research after your last post on tcm compatibility. I'm definitely not the expert on this since I used a standalone. I think the tcm updates were mostly for ecu compatibility, not to support transmission upgrades. That said with a new flash I am pretty certain you will need to do an adapt learn procedure so the tcm can baseline the clutch timing. This can be done with HP tuners.

I assume Jamie did your tcm work since he did your other stuff. Was he able to pull the configuration before the reflash and then load the config tables back into the TCM after the OS rewrite? That may or may not write back in the existing adapts.

Also that's a tough 50/50 toss up on doing a rebuild now while its on the deck. Part of me says you will probably be alright for a while and part of me says pulling the trans again down the line is another project I'd rather not do twice.

Compatability Research
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
I did a little bit of research after your last post on tcm compatibility. I'm definitely not the expert on this since I used a standalone. I think the tcm updates were mostly for ecu compatibility, not to support transmission upgrades. That said with a new flash I am pretty certain you will need to do an adapt learn procedure so the tcm can baseline the clutch timing. This can be done with HP tuners.

I assume Jamie did your tcm work since he did your other stuff. Was he able to pull the configuration before the reflash and then load the config tables back into the TCM after the OS rewrite? That may or may not write back in the existing adapts.

Also that's a tough 50/50 toss up on doing a rebuild now while its on the deck. Part of me says you will probably be alright for a while and part of me says pulling the trans again down the line is another project I'd rather not do twice.

Compatability Research
I’ll have to double check with him but I believe he did pull the configuration before the red lash and load the tables back in.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
It's almost been a month since the last post. It was slow going, my wife is pregnant with our first child and during the first ultrasound they found a tumor on her appendix, so it had to come out, they said it would cause implications in the 3rd trimester. She had it taken out a few weeks ago so I was tending to her and the surgery. Everything went well and part of the reason I am trying to do a 6l80 swap and link the rear of the hummer before December is because I am sure my free time and disposable income will dwindle by then. On the bright side all my buddies are building family friendly rock crawlers since they had 2 seater Jeeps and toyotas and now have kids. I luckily have a solid family rig already built.

Anyways, I went for my first test drive and it was a success! The high mileage 6l80 shifted into all 6 gears and locked up the TC. I think extended highway time will really show the value of the 6l80 but even driving around town it effortlessly accelerates with light throttle input since it is in the powerband so much more with the added gears.

I have the exhaust about 70% finished. I needed to modify it so I can fit the trans and I got it finished enough to drive it, yes, I am impatient.

The trans shifts kind of sluggish. I am assuming I can tune it to be firmer.

Tap shift is giving me an issue so I still need to figure that out. AC needs to be recharged. I will get pics up soon.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Louisiana
Shifting sluggish because it's probably not setup for your gearing. Just answered your PM. Let me know if you want any pointers. I tried using bluecat software to set my shift tables but it didn't work right with the low rpm range. You can either try that, or I have a spreadsheet I can share with you if you want it. It a good visual on the shift pattern and helps in tweaking things in.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
Shifting sluggish because it's probably not setup for your gearing. Just answered your PM. Let me know if you want any pointers. I tried using bluecat software to set my shift tables but it didn't work right with the low rpm range. You can either try that, or I have a spreadsheet I can share with you if you want it. It a good visual on the shift pattern and helps in tweaking things in.
He’s got 5.13s programmed in there. It just shifts soft like you don’t feel it shift. My 4l60 was far from violent shifting but it definitely was nice and firm.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Louisiana
So two things. 1) you have closer ratios on the shifts so it naturally won't feel as snappy. 2) that's a fresh flash and cal. The transmission will adapt as you drive it more and start optimizing the shift times.

I haven't changed anything in mine with shift timing, just the speed vs tps points. Works just fine.

Now get some pics posted.
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,173
Location
massachusetts
After receiving the harness and ECU/ TCM from Jeremy we dropped it off to get dyno tuned and also tuned while driving around where they can adjust shift firmness etc. This made a huge difference
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
Ok, She runs, she drives, and its all working. I do have a few things to improve though.

Tap shift wasnt working, In the end I said fuck it, I have put it off long enough and ordered HP Tuners so I could learn and not have to send my pcm/tcm back and forth 12 times. I will not tune the motor, its the same tune since I put the 6.2 in and it runs great, I will focus on trans tuning.

I say "tuner" but I consider the guy I used as more of an "integrator." He does basic tunes so it runs but he specializes in integrating non-OE options into Colorado's and H3's so they act and look factory. He did a great job with that. Anyways, after blindly digging into HP Tuners I realized he had tap shift setup under D4 mode but tap shift was setup for the D5 position (3 on the gear indicator on the dash.) So, I fixed that and tap shift was working! The parameters of how it works is in need of improvement and was constantly being overriden by the computer and its parameters set. I will blindly try to fix that and hope I don't hurt the trans in doing so. If it's in manual mode I want to be the computer. That is that. I don't want to be overridden. I say blindly but I try to learn and understand on HPtuner forums before doing it but in a sense I am clueless lol.

I thrashed for 7 hours last night getting tap shift to work and building a trans/oil pan skid. I put that off for far too long. The 4l60e trans centerline to lowest point on the transmission pan was pretty high so it was never in immediate danger unless you really fuck up. I had a nice scrape on the pan from the 4l60 when pulled but it did live for a long time. The 6l80 pan compared to centerline is LOW. The skid I made had to sit 1.5in lower than the t case skid. Making the legs were a bear to clear everything. It required removing the coilovers and bringing it from full bump to full droop multiple times and the legs had to have bends in them to clear.

IMG_8094.jpeg



After I was finished, I learned that the Pontiac G8 6l80 pan is a shallow pan that sits 1.25in higher than the current truck pan I have. I can gain 1.25in of clearance for a net loss of .25in lower than the t case skid. That sounds like an automatic win to me. My only fear is that the shallow pan will starve the pick up or converter of fluid when on steep inclines....we all know a G8 isnt sitting at steep inclines. Does anyone have experience with a G8 pan or experience with shallow pans on other transmissions?

So, after a long night of wrenching and prep, I wake up at 5:15, hit the road around 5:50 to meet at a gas station near the trailhead at 6:30. We meet up, bullshit for a bit, air down, hit the trail around 7:30 and the 1st major obstacle I break a u joint. I am putting on my weight on the front end and was wedged. Was it the new 4:1 first gear bringing me from 83:1 with an auto to 110:1? I thought it defintely could be but I have also broken a spicer 60 u joint before with 83:1. So, I kill my 2nd dana 60 spicer u joint which wiped out the ears. It took a minute to get out of the situation I was in, get to flat ground and park it. I walked the rest of the trail to see the other guy finish and then headed out from there. I got home around 10:45am and installed my Yukon Super joints and chromo shafts which I knew I should have done back in June when I got it all.


IMG_8097.JPEG


So, its installed and now I am sitting on HPtuners trying to work through tap shift parameters. I also need to figure out why it states I am doing 80 mph at like 5mph in low range when the computer is told its in low.

The drive home was uneventful, it was about 70 degrees out, I had the ac blowing 34-35 degree air, I had full doors on and was living the luxrury life. The one grade I hit was substantially better with the 6 speed, having less rpm drops it just let it maintain better speeds without revving or bogging. I also thought on the way home, wow, I had 40's and with 40's I stopped breaking things, it held 4th gear TC locked at 80 mph. Life was great....but I cant leave well enough alone so 43s go on, start breaking shit again and wanted a 6l80 to help with road manners. Stupidity at its finest but also fun. TBD on HP tuners stuff, I want to let the trans start in 2nd if I want to. I would go from 110:1 to 64:1, I used to be 83:1, with the stock 4:1 t case I was 62:1.

I think I could live with 64:1. I ditched the factory 4:1 in favor of the 205 doubler for strength, front digs, and gearing options for multiple terrains.

Then I went to the 6l80 for better highway manners, and better options in sand/snow where having less rpm drops can be beneficial when the foot is on the floor. The low range just happened as a result so I am not against running in 2nd gear from a stop in double low but I am hoping the chromoly shafts and super joints take care of that.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Louisiana
Send me a pm with what you want to do in tap shift and send me your tune file to casey.simon@adv-controls.com. I think you are wanting full manual with no smarts (eg don't shift to 1 if you come to a full stop and forget to downshift. You probably want at least overrev protection to keep you from downshifting when you could do damage.

I'm not sure what 4lo signals will do on a properly integrated system but I know for a standalone it doesn't care. The trans has input and output shaft speed monitoring so it uses that for shift points.

With the low first gear on the 6L80 I doubt you even need the doubler but I don't wheel like you do.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
Send me a pm with what you want to do in tap shift and send me your tune file to casey.simon@adv-controls.com. I think you are wanting full manual with no smarts (eg don't shift to 1 if you come to a full stop and forget to downshift. You probably want at least overrev protection to keep you from downshifting when you could do damage.

I'm not sure what 4lo signals will do on a properly integrated system but I know for a standalone it doesn't care. The trans has input and output shaft speed monitoring so it uses that for shift points.

With the low first gear on the 6L80 I doubt you even need the doubler but I don't wheel like you do.
I’ll email it to you to tonight. I think I got it figured out! I still need to drive it.

I didn’t mess with overrev protection. I should do that
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
I ordered a G8 trans pan, should net me more clearance. I worked too hard on clocking the t case and cutting the floor up and sealing it back up to give up that clearance gain right in front of the t case skid. I hope it doesnt cause any issues on steep climbs with one less quart in the system but I will report back.

I also ordered up a new fan clutch. I did the entire cooling system upgrades and still am rocking a fan clutch that is 8 years old ( I may have gotten it used, I dont remember so 8+ years old) I ordered a severe duty fan clutch and my AC/Cooling system refresh/upgrades will be complete!

I started working on mounting the push buttons into the shifter and its more complex than I had hoped for but I will try and work on that this week/weekend.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
So, in the effort of transparency I will say we have wins and more struggles! I drove the H3 with the new tap shift strategy and it kicks ass!!! I’m super stoked with it and it will start in 1-2 or 3!

My struggle is that the speedo is still wayyy off in 4Low. I have 2 methods to notify the computer I’m in low. 1 is the encoder motor, I push the button and it goes into low like a factory t case. 2 is a toggle switch that grounds out the 4Low wire to the pcm and tells the pcm “I’m in low range” I usually use the switch. My factory 4wd buttons sometimes stick, they can be a pain, etc.

So, whether the computer recognizes I’m in High or low it’s way off and says I’m doing like 55 mph at 2500 rpm when I’m doing 10-15. It leads me to believe the pcm is not acknowledging I’m in low even though I tell it I am in low.

My VSS is now in the trans, not the back of the t case anymore.

So you can see in this video it is getting 4Low active but not “selected” is that necessary to acknowledge 4Low? Idk, so I went to HPtuners tech support and they were absolutely 100% useless. I asked what each parameter means. After 11 emails I was told one means it’s active and one means it’s selected. Wtf! I was hoping for more intel.


I am leaning towards it matters on a 6l80e but not on a 4l60e because 1 switch from the toggle and it worked. I figured I’d look at some schematics and find out what’s the difference.

IMG_8146.png


So I’ll try the encoder motor route but I’m not seeing that the encoder triggers anything else 4Low related. Maybe it does in a round about way?

I see the light blue wire that says “switch sig” that may be switching or selecting to 4Low?

But here in diagnostics it only states 4Low active, not selected.

IMG_8150.jpeg



IMG_8149.jpeg


But it’s running and driving, it works, but the speedo irritates me when it’s off in low range. This will be solved, just takes time.

It seems the few that did a 6l80 swap running a factory t case don’t have this issue.
 

jimmy p

Well-Known Member
Messages
186
Location
detroit
Watch out for the aftermarket fan clutches, I tried 2 non oem clutches and they both stuck out too far and hit the radiator. I would be surprised if they worked with an oem alpha setup.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
I got severe duty 2841 from Hayden. I think the nut on it is a little deeper. I will keep you all posted. If that doesnt work I will look at 2889
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID

Here was my last trip. There are plenty of pictures and stories to be had there. Now its time to focus on the changes I made. I have made a ton of changes!

Cooling: I ditched the pusher e fans, added the big ECP radiator and it kicked ass. I ran in the 190's the entire time except on the steepest climbs and got to like 207. It wasnt the hottest out (like 70's-80's) but I usually ran at 205-210 with the old setup and got warmer on steep climbs with e fans going. Granted 210 is the average temp for every silverado with a 5.3/6/0/6.2 so 210-220 is "normal" but the difference was great! I also have an 8 year old fan clutch and have a severe duty fan clutch sitting in the garage to go in. I am super happy with it, no fan to rad clearance issues, the mounts seem to have held up (will have to inspect more later but nothing that jumps out right now)

Trans: Telling the trans what I want it to do is so nice, I can start in 1-2-3rd gear. I primarily used 2nd gear for crawling uphill, 1st gear for downhill control and I used 3rd gear starts in double low when I needed a decent amount of wheel speed. Everything worked perfectly. I also figured out the trans gear indicator issue that I had, I was only able to run the scangauge or indicator at one time, not both. I added a 120 ohm resistor in between the can hi and can low lines at the obd2 port and now I can use both at the same time.

I had one code come up, P2537, which is contradictory, one site says its low ignition voltage another says its tcm voltage related. I had a random no start and my battery terminals were loose! It appears my battery hold down got loose and allowed the battery to move around a little so I will have to track and see if it is a loose wire or terminal related.

Overall though the trans works awesome! I am just irritated that the speedo doesnt work accurately in low range so I will have to fix that. It would say im doing 70 when Im doing 10 mph. Its ok though, I am making up for all the years my odometer was slightly underreporting mileage lol. So thats really the only 1 fix I have, plus some p2537 troubleshooting.

I threw a Pontiac G8 shallow pan in for more ground clearance it and was worried about the loss of fluid capacity and starving it out on steep climbs but that didnt happen. I did land on my skid so hard I bent it and went into the pan a little. I will have to pound that out and make a better skid.

love the 6l80.

I had weird issues this trip, loose rear axle shaft flange bolts, an inner axle leak which probably happened when I messed up when I broke the u joint on the shakedown (been 6 years on those inner axle seals) and a loose wheel bearing. So just weird maintenance related issues.

The anti-wrap bar breaking is 100% design flaw, I shouldn't have an anti-wrap bar attached to a 1/8 plate truss but that leads me to the next topic. Linking the rear. I want to link the rear before the baby comes. After a trip like this I question why I would even link it? It did so well!! I was left grinning ear to ear but I also want to improve performance and make it better, even with an anti wrap bar I still struggle with anti wrap if the tires arent squared up on an obstacle. I also hope it makes me better at moab or sand hollow. I feel that my H3 was built around rock gardens like the hammers or the rubicon and linking the rear can improve moab/sand hollow type places.

So I had decided to do a 3 link rear but I am continually struggle with the strength concerns. Breaking my anti wrap bar further exacerbates that concern. I do not want a 5 link (4 link w/ track bar) I would want a triangulated 4 link. the design of a 3 link will allow me to achieve the numbers I want but at the expense of worse clearance. The only triangulated 4 link I have seen was Dana 60 H3's build and he had a pricey aluminum gen right TJ tank. I found a lead on a free TJ factory tank (19 gallons) and a free ZJ tank (23 gallons) I want to see if I can make one of those work. I do fear having the weight behind the rear axle but it's an experiment (in theory it should make it worse for climbing which is what I am trying to improve.) if links suck I can always put my factory tank back in and do leafs again.

Just knowing that my rig is usually the pull around broken dead weight rig, I fear a 3 link will be too much for it. I also can probably net more travel with a 4 link because I can mount the coilovers better without a tank in the way.

Anyways, I was super stoked on the hummer and just going around thinking I have to change it up again.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
While I still have a few things to iron out on the 6l80 swap like the speedo being off in low range. I have decided I can work on that little stuff after the baby is here. That doesn't require as much time as linking the rear.

So Coilover's are ordered. 12in 2.5 Fox Coilovers, DSC's. Accutune told me the spring rate they picked is 350/400. I am 225/350 in the front, and I am about 50/50 weight bias when loaded for a trail like the rubicon. The rear coilovers will have more angle on them to lessen the rate but I gave them my accurate rear weight (sprung and unsprung) and said add a little more weight because it is not uncommon for this thing to end up carrying peoples crap on the trail or being the tow rig for broken down rigs.

With that said, I have decided on a triangulated 4 link. I think it is just the right way to do it for strength and numbers. I can do the 3 link and achieve the anti-squat I want but not the roll axis and lose strength with 1 upper link. I can do a 5 link (4link with panhard) and get the strength, but I can't get the anti-squat or roll axis numbers I want. So, 4 link it is. My one requirement is no fuel inside!

I know of 1 triangulated 4 link H3 and he used a TJ Genright tank. I am not spending 1600 bucks on a fuel tank.

So here we go...

fueltakn.jpeg


TJ and ZJ tank. We will see which one fits better. 19 gallon and 23 gallon and go behind the rear axle.

IMG_3191.PNG


Since I don't always run a spare anymore I will be cutting all this crap out, it hangs out far and in front of it is a lot of 1/8in plating from the factory that housed factory sway bar mounts, factory muffler, evap stuff, shock mounts, etc. That will allow me to move the gas tank up as high as I possibly can.

I will cap the frame and do rec. tubing between the frame rails for a gas tank mount, hitch receiver, and tow points. I will have the hitch receiver mounted low enough for times that I do run a spare I can use a hitch extension to protect the tire.

My hope is that I can fit a ZJ tank in there. its 23 gallons and the factory H3 tank is 23 gallons. I am confident the 19-gallon TJ tank will fit as a backup if the ZJ tank doesnt work out. Dana 60 H3 said that the genright tank he said that the height of a TJ tank is the same as an H3 and the fuel gauge reads accurately. I will be remounting the evap crap I remove and mounting it along the frame rail. As always, keeping it operating like factory is important.

I am equally excited and nervous about this mod. The leafs have kicked ass for years but I think they have run their course and by the time I price out nice shocks, new leafs (not factory but from deaver/alcan,etc.) a new anti wrap bar setup I am getting close to linking it money. I hope this is an overall win.

Goal is to have it done before the baby shows up and be driving the baby home from the hospital in the hummer.

Here is a random picture, unfortunately a friend of mine passed away in a tragic event last Saturday (standing in the pic.) A group of us are adding pictures to a google drive folder for a slideshow and someone posted this. This is probably back in 2009. It's cool to see the Hummer still trekking along and how many memories it has provided with friends. It's been in the family for 18 years and has been in my life for more than half of my life now.


4543_1162923866980_1044352591_488965_868398_n_Original.jpeg
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,350
Location
Meridian, ID
IMG_8608.jpeg


IMG_8610.jpeg


Things escalated quickly this weekend lol there’s plenty more metal I cut out since that pic. Anyways, cut out all the old crap. Mocked up the TJ tank. I don’t like how low it sits. It’s about 25.5 to the lowest point before a skid is there. I was about 32 to the lowest point before. It still sits higher than the stock fuel tank currently but it definitely hurts departure angle. I knew I’d lose clearance but hoped it wouldn’t be that much. There’s a nice lip I could cut out in the body to give me and extra inch or two. There’s also dead space that’s being wasted. It’s to be expected when using a random off the shelf tank. I need to ponder my next steps. This may be a 2 step process. Build the 4 link, throw a tank in for the time being and then come back and do a tank. I like Brennans approach. I don’t have Brennans skills. I am confident I could take the foam board and make the shape but would have to farm out the actual cutting, bending, and welding of the tank.


So I continued the next day to just cut more crap out, I have more stuff to do before decision time.

IMG_8641.jpeg


Nice leaf spring bushing….that one was wasted the worst.

IMG_8637.jpeg


I thought I was gonna tear up a little. Those leaf springs have put in work for 18 years. Thank you for your time, now you can rest easy in retirement on my sideyard.

Here’s a fresh Eaton housing. My current one is fine, but it’s easier to just start with that then cut all the old shit off. I’ll cut it off eventually and use it in future projects but for times sake, I have 3 housings so might as well start fresh. I’ll swap my 3rd, shafts, brakes, hubs, and all the crap over.

IMG_8642.jpeg


So I’m out of town the next 3 weekends. I won’t be able to work on it again until the weeknights of Oct 16th. My buddy is flying out the weekend of Nov. 4th and that’s the time to really get this shit done.

We have been talking about a game plan. I will continue to research more tanks and options and we are reconsidering the 3 link. Like I mentioned earlier, I can get the same anti squat numbers I need. Roll axis is a little worse but a sway bar can help with that. Then gusset, gusset and more gussets, and tie in to as many things as possible TBD
 
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