Anti-Sway Disconnect...front

I was experimenting under the H3 yesterday, trying to determine the best options for a fairly easy anti-sway disconnect. I really appreciate the massive anti-sway bar on this thing, combined with a light rear anti-sway on the rear for road-going. It handles very well on the road like this with minimal body lean around hard corners. gives me confidence to put the H3's wide stance to use around corners. Despite this thing being heavy and tall I'd say it handles very well for what it is.

Unfortunately, I do not like the way this thing traverses uneven terrain with the anti-sway bar in the front. The rear is fine, plenty of flex and not stiff enough there to try to command the ride angle of the vehicle over every bump. The front end jossles riders back and forth rigidly with every change in terrain under the front axle. It's not an "anti" sway bar on the trail, quite the contrary as it sways the vehicle hard and fast as the front wheels move over terrain while the rear is just along for the ride. This results in a lot of fatigue for riders and IMO introduces safety issues when wheels go off the ground (vehicle sways rapidly rather than smoothly in the most precarious scenarios).

I see some pictures of H3's with front anti-sway quick-disconnects installed, but no pictures of them actually disconnected. I'm trying to determine what these folks are doing with the anti-sway bar after it is disconnected?

I tinkered with disconnecting just 1 top joint of 1 side for Wheeling, leaving the other joint in place to "support/float" the sway bar in there, and laying the disconnected link down on the control arm to be tied off. This is pretty quick as it can be done with a cordless impact with a 5mm allen driver and an 18mm wrench and a piece of bailing wire in about 40 seconds. I articulated the front end and found that at full stuff + full droop side to side, the disconnected side will either hit the bottom control arm, or brush against the side of the upper control arm and brake line. The way it hits the bottom doesn't concern me too much, but the way it hits the top makes me a bit concerned about it possibly getting hung up on the side of the control arm or pinching the brake line.

I also experimenting with both side disconnected and tipping the "sway" bar forward into the wheel well. It appeared to me that this arrangement would require modification of the inside of the fender to actually swing it far enough to be out of the way.

Has anyone come up with a good solution for securing the front anti-sway bar when disconnected?

This is actually a good question. I am one of the guys running that JKS Quick disconnect swaybar link. I will link you to some pictures on my build thread as well as me asking some questions about it. Unfortunately I have not run into sway bar being disconnected on both sides problem yet because when I cycled my suspension it stopped at the same place with the sway bar disconnected as when the sway bar was on. I think the limiting factor for me is that I need longer shocks so I haven't had the chance to take the disconnects off and try them when wheeling. Note I have the 4in rancho. Also I have a number of other things that I have to worry about first so I haven't followed up on this issue. You should ask Rascole (On H4O) how do I if he solve this problem because he is running the JKS Front sway bar disconnects.

Me Asking About Them In Another Thread:
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?12878-JKS-Front-Discos&highlight=jks+discos

JKS Install On My Build Thread:
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...73-Acer4LO-s-2008-Alpha-H3-Build-Thread/page2

Yes Acer4LO! I have seen those threads! Part of a long list of search results I have been through! Still looking for some ideas to solve the last part of that puzzle!

To be clear, I have no expectation of improving the total suspension travel or flex by disconnecting the sway bar. The goal here is to improve suspension compliance over terrain that could make more use of the available flex before finding the limits of suspension travel, thus, absorbing more of the terrain in the suspension and swaying the vehicle less as it moves over normal uneven terrain.

The rear suspension even with the anti-sway bar installed is already pretty compliant, and can flex plenty as is. The sway bar in the rear simply is not stiff enough to take command of the primary vehicle inclination, with or without the front anti-sway bar connected....

I'll try to shoot a video demonstrating what I'm talking about sometime. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to "show" this, as I see a LOT of people on 4X forums who have given up on bothering with the sway bar disconnect because it doesn't change max flex very much or at all. I don't even care about max flex with a front locker. I don't want me and passengers and our stuff to be flung back and forth violently as the front suspension is trying to force the whole vehicle to line up with the inclination of the land under the front axle. It creates unnecessarily dramatic body movement for every little bump.

I get what you are saying. No I haven't looked into this at all but one idea I was thinking that a limit strap designed to limit suspension travel and use that to hold it up. Ethier that or some paracord rope lol. Not really sure though would need to look into it more

I was reading a thread recently of a guy that installed H3 lower control arms on his 1st gen colorado and then installed the rubicon jeep electric swaybar which he converted to air actuated. Pretty cool looks like it lined up almost perfectly. Eventually I was thinking of trying this but the 37s rub too hard on the swaybar so we have had it uninstalled since may 2015.

I was looking at a strap-up option, but seems like a strap coming from anything already available to strap to would wind up interfering with other suspension components. The only other options would require compromising the interior of the fender, and likely wind up hanging it somewhere it could rub.

In retrospect, I think a disconnect designed into the bar somewhere might actually be a superior solution for the H3. I'm assuming that's the sort of disconnect that you're talking about there atvspeed4. (like a splined collar or pinned flange or something). My 94 rodeo's front suspension was pieced together with tie rods, control arms, anti-sway, and half shafts from a 93 trooper, and shocks from Toyota Land Cruiser. It did work, better than the stock parts for the lift I was running, but that project still gives me reason to want to keep the H3's front end as OEM as possible for now. If something were going to change, the first thing might have to be some sway bar mods. I'll have to look under those skid plates sometime and see what sort of space there is to work on that.

I think I'm going to run a short trail this weekend with one side disconnected and see how that goes. Going to see if I can come up with a way to route that brake line differently.

mdocod said:

I was looking at a strap-up option, but seems like a strap coming from anything already available to strap to would wind up interfering with other suspension components. The only other options would require compromising the interior of the fender, and likely wind up hanging it somewhere it could rub.

In retrospect, I think a disconnect designed into the bar somewhere might actually be a superior solution for the H3. I'm assuming that's the sort of disconnect that you're talking about there atvspeed4. (like a splined collar or pinned flange or something). My 94 rodeo's front suspension was pieced together with tie rods, control arms, anti-sway, and half shafts from a 93 trooper, and shocks from Toyota Land Cruiser. It did work, better than the stock parts for the lift I was running, but that project still gives me reason to want to keep the H3's front end as OEM as possible for now. If something were going to change, the first thing might have to be some sway bar mods. I'll have to look under those skid plates sometime and see what sort of space there is to work on that.

I think I'm going to run a short trail this weekend with one side disconnected and see how that goes. Going to see if I can come up with a way to route that brake line differently.

Click to expand...

I am referring to the factory Jeep rubicon swaybar:

https://www.quadratec.com/products/...UrFHN4cwYp5My5PgJTyoelvIPagnma8xoCLGYQAvD_BwE

I have the Rancho and the JKS disco set up. After my first trip to Moab I realized that at nearly full articulation the bar would hit but nothing dramatic to really worry about, just a little annoying noise. This last trip I found it almost as easy to just completely remove the bar. With a 10mm (I think) and a cordless it took me less than minute to remove. Pull only the 2 bottom pins and 4 bolts and you're done. The rear only needs one side since there is no worries of hang ups.

rascole said:

I have the Rancho and the JKS disco set up. After my first trip to Moab I realized that at nearly full articulation the bar would hit but nothing dramatic to really worry about, just a little annoying noise. This last trip I found it almost as easy to just completely remove the bar. With a 10mm (I think) and a cordless it took me less than minute to remove. Pull only the 2 bottom pins and 4 bolts and you're done. The rear only needs one side since there is no worries of hang ups.

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I've been thinking about this recently, the hard jostling in the H3 aggravates done of my wife's shoulder issues (being a dental hygienist is tough on the neck and shoulders).

How much of a difference does this make to reduce the jostling?




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Atv,

Yes I understood what part you were referring to. It's an interesting idea. Yikes.. expensive though. Wonder if I could come up with a way to cut a sway bar, weld up a couple splined sections to it with a splined sleeve that could be moved in and out of position.

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Rascole,

You know... removing the whole thing might make more sense.... I pack power tools anyway. You're right this would be a quick removal and reinstall that could be done while deflating and inflating tires anyway.

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Bowser-II,

Disconnecting the front sway bar on these H3's reduces the jostling dramatically (any SUV really). I'm of the opinion at this time that leaving the rear on may work pretty well to help balance the flex between the front and rear, while providing a margin of safety to keep the vehicle less tippy when on sideways inclinations. Probably a good compromise to leave the rear connected, but I haven't experimented with it removed so can't know this for certain, just going with my gut instinct on that.

mdocod said:

Atv,

Yes I understood what part you were referring to. It's an interesting idea. Yikes.. expensive though. Wonder if I could come up with a way to cut a sway bar, weld up a couple splined sections to it with a splined sleeve that could be moved in and out of position.

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Rascole,

You know... removing the whole thing might make more sense.... I pack power tools anyway. You're right this would be a quick removal and reinstall that could be done while deflating and inflating tires anyway.

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Bowser-II,

Disconnecting the front sway bar on these H3's reduces the jostling dramatically (any SUV really). I'm of the opinion at this time that leaving the rear on may work pretty well to help balance the flex between the front and rear, while providing a margin of safety to keep the vehicle less tippy when on sideways inclinations. Probably a good compromise to leave the rear connected, but I haven't experimented with it removed so can't know this for certain, just going with my gut instinct on that.

Click to expand...

We aways leave the rear connected. In Moab we found that with the front off but rear connected it was more stable on side slopes but still was able to flex the rear until the tires rubbed.

Not sure exactly what you're referring too. But at slow speeds there is no noticeable change. At highway speeds yes, lots of side to side movement, even dangerous.

rascole said:

Not sure exactly what you're referring too. But at slow speeds there is no noticeable change. At highway speeds yes, lots of side to side movement, even dangerous.

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Disconnecting the anti-sway bars reduces side to side jostling when offroad significantly.

The anti-sway bar is designed to prevent body roll from turning forces, and relies on the assumption that the lay of the land under the vehicle is level. When the lay of the land under the axle goes wompus, the anti-sway bar role is reversed, now the same forces that were preventing the vehicle from leaning from turning forces, are forcing the vehicle to lean with the lay of the land under the axle. Since the weight is up front, and the heavy anti-sway bar is up front, the vehicle inclination will favor tracking the lay of the land under the front axle, rather than balancing vehicle inclination between the lay of the land under the front and rear axles. This causes harsh and rapid jostling over uneven terrain as the front axle commands the inclination of the vehicle to "track" with the land. Disconnecting the anti-sway on the front, allows the front suspension to "comply" with uneven terrain. The total available flex doesn't change, but the amount of flex exercised through terrain that would not normally use the full range of motion will be greater. The result is more suspension movement and less body movement over uneven terrain.

Disconnecting the Sway Bar for off-road can be very beneficial if the vehicle lacks flex or lockers. The idea is to keep all the tires equally in contact with as much ground as possible to maximize the amount of possible traction. The swaybar isn't beneficial if just 2 tires are carrying nearly all of the weight of the vehicle. This would result in an overall diminished off-road prowess, thus I've been wanting to create WARN Hub lockout disconnect for the rear sway bar. However, my off-road experience has taught me that disconnecting both swaybars isn't particularly beneficial. Rather, keep one swaybar for stability, disconnecting the other one too, in a sense, let the axle do what it wants to get the most traction possible for crawling over obstacles. Since the rear axle has a great range of travel, I would choose the rear axle to disconnect and do all the work. The rear axle is much stronger than the front IFS. But the front, even with its front Sway Bar still connected has a role to play, these are the tire that helps keep the vehicle stable and stop the H3 from rolling over.


So in this scenario, you would want front tires with Sway Bar connected to take a level / stable route over the obstacle you plan to climb. Whereas the rear tires, with their ability flex more along with disconnect Sway Bars, will do the dirty work. Going into the weird holes and positions, hopping around, basically whatever I ask of it. By doing it this way, I play to the strengths of the H3 Hummer's design, and most importantly don't overload the front IFS.

Now I get it, so what you're trying to say is jostling=sway.

I "100%" disagree with leaving the front connected and disconnecting the rear.

From a practical and engineering standpoint that is illogical. You will not preserve the ifs by keeping the front connected and constantly lifting a front tire offroad. Look at any of our videos from our Moab trip and you will see how well the IFS works with the front swaybar disconnected and the rear still connected. This setup forces the IFS to fully use the suspension travel keeping the front tires in contact with the ground as much as possible. Anyone that has logged years offroading over various terrain with IFS has experienced this. Im sorry, I just do not want to see misinformation being spread on this forum as it is a great place for people that are just getting into hummers (especially since price point is coming down) to learn about their vehicles and how to enjoy them offroad.

Schwarttzy said:

Disconnecting the Sway Bar for off-road can be very beneficial if the vehicle lacks flex or lockers. The idea is to keep all the tires equally in contact with as much ground as possible to maximize the amount of possible traction. The swaybar isn't beneficial if just 2 tires are carrying nearly all of the weight of the vehicle. This would result in an overall diminished off-road prowess, thus I've been wanting to create WARN Hub lockout disconnect for the rear sway bar. However, my off-road experience has taught me that disconnecting both swaybars isn't particularly beneficial. Rather, keep one swaybar for stability, disconnecting the other one too, in a sense, let the axle do what it wants to get the most traction possible for crawling over obstacles. Since the rear axle has a great range of travel, I would choose the rear axle to disconnect and do all the work. The rear axle is much stronger than the front IFS. But the front, even with its front Sway Bar still connected has a role to play, these are the tire that helps keep the vehicle stable and stop the H3 from rolling over.


So in this scenario, you would want front tires with Sway Bar connected to take a level / stable route over the obstacle you plan to climb. Whereas the rear tires, with their ability flex more along with disconnect Sway Bars, will do the dirty work. Going into the weird holes and positions, hopping around, basically whatever I ask of it. By doing it this way, I play to the strengths of the H3 Hummer's design, and most importantly don't overload the front IFS.

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I don't believe that running with the rear disconnected, and the front still connected, plays to any strengths of the H3 off-road. I'd call it the opposite.

By disconnecting the rear, leaving the front on, the vehicle body inclination will track with the lay of the land under the front axle EVEN MORE than if the rear were still connected. At least with both end still connected there's a spring in the rear to "fight" the front for command of vehicle inclination on twisted, uneven terrain. By removing only the rear, the worst characteristics of the H3 off-road are exacerbated even more. I would fully expect the ride quality offroad and the jostling of passengers back and forth to be as bad or very likely worse with only the rear disconnected.

I ran a pretty narly trail (in a few places) with the H3 yesterday (hackett gulch). Ran aired down to 16PSI and with the front sway disconnected (removed 1 link). Worked great. Felt very comfortable on the trail, no fast swaying. The "rubbing" on the brake line doesn't appear to have done any abrasion (smooth surface on smooth hard rubber), and I only heard it "clunk" against the control arms a couple times.

Removing a single link with an impact driver, 5mm allen driver, and 18mm wrench is very fast. Takes less than a minute. Throw some penetrating oil on the bolts before leaving on the trip to smooth out the removal. I'll probably just do this and not worry about finding a place to "hang up" the bar, or remove it...

Oddly, I rub more on the sway bar in town parking and in my driveway parking (garage is 90 degrees to driveway), than I did on the trail.