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Custom rebuild and redesign of Humvee / H1

06 H3

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,352
Location
Meridian, ID
3Hummers said:
I did not see the pre-edited posts but I will say that what someone posted about and their experience level from a year ago or more is totally irrelevant. I have seen absolute neophytes grow into off-road monsters in a short period of time. I could cite dozens of examples but case in point is 06 H3. When Chris first started running with us he was in a bone stock H3 and when people talked about lines he thought you were talking about the crease the dry cleaners put in his khakis. Now he has done his on SAS, installed motors, rebuilt t cases and done harder trails than most anyone on the forum. He has rebuilt numerous other rigs for other people. I would say that there are only a handful of people here that could hold their own with Chris on the trail or in the shop.
Cole is strapping on a big project. It will be a great learning experience for him and many of us that own and wrench on H1s. The H1 crowd are all very interested in what he is attempting and are supportive. I don't think any of us know exactly how it is going to turn out but I have attempted many projects that took twists and turns I did not expect. Learned something from everyone of them.
If the topic of this thread is not interesting to you don't follow it. If the OP is attempting something you can't do or you don't think he can do then sit back and watch with your mouth shut, otherwise they just might make you look foolish. I have watched many people on here pull off some amazing stuff. I am rooting for Cole and have put him in touch with some of the most knowledgable Hummer people in the country. I will help where I can but mostly am going to sit back and watch his progress and hope for his success.
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Thanks guys I really appreciate it! Places like this helped me learn, ask questions and post up my findings to be challenged and find other solutions.
 
2010H3TAlpha

2010H3TAlpha

Well-Known Member
Messages
563
Location
Issaquah, WA
GreatDaneHummer said:
So many reasons for the 6.5TD over the Cummins. The 6.5TD fits correct and is almost "drop in" ready for the H1 frame (not reinventing the wheel), cost and plus with dropping the weight so significantly down on the H1 you really don't need big power like the Cummins provides. At the weight I am aiming for it would be like putting a performance 6.5TD in the H3. 350 HP and 700 ft lbs of torque through a 6 speed transmission while keeping the H3's weight would be almost scary fast.

This is a 300HP version of the one I will be using.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O233fuYBPuw
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Thanks for taking the time to explain. I am still learning the ropes about H1s, but I also have experience with the GM 6.5TD, though it was from the early 90's and nothing like that beauty in the link you shared. Should be a very quick rig with the lightweight goals you have.

And I am guessing you are avoiding the Duramax due to initial/maintenance costs?
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
The Duramax being a V shape does not fit very well in the H1's narrow frame. 3Hummers explained to me many of the issues he has seen even with the 2006 Alpha H1 done by GM. After looking further into what a few have said to me now about other companies blocking out error codes on their Duramax conversions I found this to be true. The Duramax is the hardest out of the three major engine swap options on the H1 to get right without issue. Now please keep in mind; this is my first swap from scratch on the H1 so what I say about the different swaps and what made me go with the 6.5TD is from speaking to everyone I can that has first hand knowledge on the subject and reading everything I can get my hands onto. If I where to do anything other than the 6.5TD it would be a 5.9 Cummins and go really crazy up to 750 hp and 2000 ft lbs of torque or something in that range but longevity would be greatly sacrificed.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
Project update 11/29/16

One of the considerations during my experiments into Carbon Fiber and Carbon Kevlar is heat. So for testing I took a 4" square piece of Carbon Kevlar and hardened it with a high grade epoxy resin then put it in a testing oven. Using a KISS Mole unit to measure the surface temp accurately, I raised the oven temperature up slowly towards 226 degree's F over a 1 hour span. Standard high grade epoxy resin distorts at 226 degree's F but with only just barley hitting 207 it became soft enough to get a slight bend in it. So I concluded that I would need to use an even higher grade MIL spec aircraft resin. The listed distortion temperature for this special resin is 289 degree F. Performing the same test again using the MIL spec aircraft resin I didn't see distortion until 305 degree F. Why you might ask is this so important?

I read an article about BMW owners seeing distortion and warping on their Carbon Fiber tops in extreme temperature area's like Dubai. I would like not to see this ever happen.
 
High Five H2

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
So is this a prototype? You're planning on rebuilding old army HUMVEEs and doing this conversion? That sounds pretty awesome to me. I was a but skeptical about not using the duramax, but since the engine you're using has plenty of power and doesn't have the frame rail issues, it sounds like a reasonable way to go to me. I don't know much about H1's other than I want one real bad, so if you have more interesting nuggets of wisdom, then please share.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
Oltorf The Destroyer said:
So is this a prototype? You're planning on rebuilding old army HUMVEEs and doing this conversion? That sounds pretty awesome to me. I was a but skeptical about not using the duramax, but since the engine you're using has plenty of power and doesn't have the frame rail issues, it sounds like a reasonable way to go to me. I don't know much about H1's other than I want one real bad, so if you have more interesting nuggets of wisdom, then please share.
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Yes this is the first prototype but if it all goes well I would like to expand it into building more for sale. I am by far not an expert on the HUMVEE or civilian H1; just one of my dream vehicles and it is worth it to me to learn everything I can about them. This 6.5TD that I am going to use is still something very special. I am working with the manufacturing company to produce one exclusively for this project / company. Many of the parts I will provide in Carbon Fiber but even further on a functional basis they are using very special high end pistons, rings and so much more. My goal was 350 HP but at the rate we are going with it I am more than sure they will far exceed my expectations. The goal with this project was never to create a race truck but at 5000 lbs and a min of 700 ft lbs of torque it will not have a problem getting up out of the way.

In comparison the 2006 Alpha H1 had 300 HP and 520 ft lbs torque with 7847 lbs for the open top (closest comparison) and had a 0-60 of 13.5 seconds. With much more power and 1800 lbs in weight loss I think it will be pretty quick.
 
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GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
3 Hummers have you ever done or seen a rear steer upgrade before? I know that Blue Hummer makes a kit but from what I hear its kind of mid level quality? I would like to add rear steer to this prototype but have little experience with it.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
When I am finished with the body should it get painted or leave all the Carbon Kevlar / Carbon Fiber showing? With so many panels being put together there is no way to get everything lined up in the exact same weave so it would look a little mosh posh vs. one clean consecutive piece? Super cars get away with clean body sides out of one piece because they are not riveted together where as I am actually doing custom Carbon Fiber rivets.
 
3

3Hummers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,400
Location
Central Texas
GreatDaneHummer said:
3 Hummers have you ever done or seen a rear steer upgrade before? I know that Blue Hummer makes a kit but from what I hear its kind of mid level quality? I would like to add rear steer to this prototype but have little experience with it.
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No. I think that only a few people have done them. I do not think that Dave at Blue Hummer still offers the kit but I would check with him to be sure.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

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Messages
994
Location
Chicago
I should have the first finished panels to show just after Christmas. I will post up pictures as I work on things next week more. Right now I am down to 1 arm so things are moving very slow.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
Yea it showed up but I have not had time to continue that project yet. For now the classes in Composite materials, my MBA classes, work and the H1 project I have been just driving my H3 as a daily.
 
Expendable

Expendable

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Messages
1,025
Location
Burbank, CA
From what I have seen there are at least 3 - 5 different rear steer setups installed on H1s (probably) more. Some have lock outs so that the rear wheels can't turn when the lock out is engaged. How the lockouts are managed are done differently each time from what I can remember. Rear steering is a cool concept but really tricky, especially if you want to make it legally able to drive on road. check out youtube and you'll see a few setups in action (not necessarily how they installed them).

If you are going swap a cummins in, I would go 4bt instead of 6bt. 4bt can easily make more than a stock H1 Alpha reliably and IMO that's more than enough power (I am content with my 170hp and 290 lb-ft) . plus it fits so much better under the hood due to the cooling stack/front diff .

As for the Alpha 0 - 60 times, a lot of that has to do with the programming due to the 242HD Transfer case. to prevent premature wear on the T Cases in the H1 Alphas, they were tune to lag (on purpose) at slower speeds, especially from stand stills.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
After speaking with one of the Hummer H1 racing pro's they advised against using rear steer for a few good reasons:

1.) No one he knew of has ever been happy with it after being installed; issues with alignment after trying to move back to dead center.

2.) Add's weight and if I am going through all this time and effort to do a Carbon Kevlar and Carbon Fiber body then why add weight with something I would not use other than being cool to play with.

3.) Just one more thing to have to fix / maintain on a vehicle that has enough maintenance to begin with.

I feel he has some very valid points and for the goals that I am going for I will not be trying to do this.
 
GreatDaneHummer

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
Special shipment showed up today!! This will be the top layer that you will see of the part. Spectra Carbon Kevlar absolutely beautiful to me.

Spectra Carbon Kevlar__1480697320_96.95.83.60.jpg
Spectra Carbon Kevlar close up__1480697292_96.95.83.60.jpg
 
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